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Apology!

viningvining X MemberPosts: 4,368
Well it appears that my language, attitude or views have offended my fellow forum members and AMX and subsequently I have lost my ACE priveledges and no longer have access to that section of the forum.

So to those that I have offended I sincerely aplogize! I will now rest my thoughts and opinions on ACE recertifications and leave further discussions on that subject to those that still carry the certification.

Peace out & merry Christmas my fellow ex ACE patriots.

Comments

  • HedbergHedberg Junior Member Posts: 671
    I don't think you have anything to apologize for. We're all adults here -- well, almost all of us are -- and should be able to tolerate some dissent and contrary opinion.
  • ericmedleyericmedley Senior Member - 4000+ posts Posts: 4,177
    vining is the AMX forum's Cool Hand Luke...

    "Another night in the box..." :D
  • Joe HebertJoe Hebert Junior Member Posts: 2,159
    ericmedley wrote: »
    vining is the AMX forum's Cool Hand Luke...

    "Another night in the box..." :D
    Maybe it?s the insomnia kicking in (or maybe senility) but I literally laughed out loud.
    Great movie (and reference) but I?m not putting vining up on a pedestal until he saves the souls of 50 AMX programmers by eating 50 hardboiled eggs in an hour.

    I really should sleep...
  • Spire_JeffSpire_Jeff Formerly Caffeinated Programmer Posts: 1,917
    ericmedley wrote: »
    vining is the AMX forum's Cool Hand Luke...

    "Another night in the box..." :D

    "What we have here is failure to communicate (master to master???). Some men you just can't reach... so, you get what we had here last night... which is the way he wants it.... well .. he gets it! ....and I don't like it any more than you men."

    Jeff
  • Jorde_VJorde_V UX Scientist Posts: 393
    Shame to hear that. :( I'm not an ACE yet, but I can easily see where you are coming from, as I hardly have time to even get certified right now (let alone be recertified, simply because it would take several days. (time I don't have)).

    Seriously childish to strip you of your ACE's because you disagree with them. Glad I don't have ACE Status yet (so they can't strip me of mine, as I agree with you, and have said similar things regarding other stuff).
  • the8thstthe8thst Junior Member Posts: 470
    Sure you disagreed with AMX, but I didn't see you post anything that warranted you being stripped of ACE status (at least not for a few weeks anyways).
  • ericmedleyericmedley Senior Member - 4000+ posts Posts: 4,177
    the8thst wrote: »
    Sure you disagreed with AMX, but I didn't see you post anything that warranted you being stripped of ACE status (at least not for a few weeks anyways).

    I don't think he's lost his ACE status, just his access to the ACE portion of the forum.

    I'm not sure I understand the quarantine myself. I wasn't offended myself. To be frank, I've been much more offended by some other attitudes on the forum that have nothing to do with bad language or negativity towards AMX.
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,368
    ericmedley wrote:
    I've been much more offended by some other attitudes on the forum that have nothing to do with bad language or negativity towards AMX.
    I actually love AMX and do everything humanly possible to sell the stuff. As far as my language I guess they don't know what the the kids are wathcing on TV know a days, "South Park" for instance. I was told that kids view the forums but at the time I forgot this was the ACE forum we were talking about.

    They questioned my loyalty to AMX since sales are off this year, hello recession, heck they've never been all that great but I've always done the best I could in this regard. I can't do any more than I can and if working 18 hours a day 7 days a week for the last 5 years since I've become a dealer in an attempt to excel at programming, integration and everthing that entails I really don't know what more I can do prove myself.

    Now if I wasn't into this would on be on the forums every day? I think I have the 2nd highest numbers of post on the forum with DHawthorne being number one. I also believe I've posted the most modules for other forum members to use and for what purpose, ego? Well yeah but I also know how hard it is to become a dealer starting from scratch and since I'm not worried about direct competition, why not share, help the next guy, maybe help make their systems better so they can achieve more sales. I know selfish, huh.

    I just watched the BullsEye presentation that AMX put out which outlines their business strategy moving forward in the next year and years to follow and I think myself and most other small dealers are going to get phased out. Pushed out more like it.

    Highlights:

    No tech support unless you pay the $1,200/yr fee. I've never called but apparently in the small time bracket I'm in all the new dealers use it alot. Apparently it doesn't matter if you call because their products aren't working as described.

    We all now need to buy $5000.00 of demo product per year and that's at dealer cost.

    Each dealer will be required to have an ACE in every category and there's a couple other online things that were required like outside sales or something that will require 2 persons in the company. Now I need a clone unless having a split personallity counts.

    There requirements are intended to grow our businesses but I really see it as driving out the small guys and even if I suck it up and did the re-certs I don't think I could mantain the other new requirements.

    Even though I've sacrificed the last 5 years of my life and spent probably hundreds of thousands of dollars on equipment and time in pursuit of obtaining AMX excellance I sundenly realize all that effort was for nothing. Not a great feeling to have going into this holiday season.

    I am really at a loss for words..................tears...................ok I'm not really crying but I am sad!
  • TonyAngeloTonyAngelo Code Monkey Posts: 315
    vining wrote: »
    Highlights:

    No tech support unless you pay the $1,200/yr fee. I've never called but apparently in the small time bracket I'm in all the new dealers use it alot. Apparently it doesn't matter if you call because their products aren't working as described.

    We all now need to buy $5000.00 of demo product per year and that's at dealer cost.

    Both of these are ridiculous requirements.
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,368
    Note: the $1200/yr TS fee is for Bronze dealers or basically the new guys on the block who understandably will have the most problems. Seems like you're penalized from the starting block or if you like myself sort of a one man show. I do have guys doing other stuff but AMX in my company is me.

    The $5k (dealer cost) is for all.

    Of course I would n't take my word for this since I'm obviously messed up but I did watch these parts twice.

    Now as far as South Park I didn't say what the kids should be watching or that it was created or intended for kids but this is what they watch before the parents go to bed when they then flip to the spice channel. I know I would if I had it. :D
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,368
    If you do start a thread regarding these requirements could you put it a "non" ACE area so I can watch. It may be the only enjoyment I'll have this holiday season!
  • AuserAuser Junior Member Posts: 506
    vining wrote: »
    I just watched the BullsEye presentation that AMX put out which outlines their business strategy moving forward in the next year and years to follow [...]

    I'd love to see this, can you post a link? I don't want to jump the gun before seeing the AMX info, but if this info is correct...
    vining wrote:
    No tech support unless you pay the $1,200/yr fee.
    [...]
    We all now need to buy $5000.00 of demo product per year and that's at dealer cost.
    [...]
    Note: the $1200/yr TS fee is for Bronze dealers or basically the new guys on the block who understandably will have the most problems. Seems like you're penalized from the starting block or if you like myself sort of a one man show. I do have guys doing other stuff but AMX in my company is me.
    [...]
    The $5k (dealer cost) is for all.

    How many established dealers have bit the bullet and bought Cafe Duet? Why then would any new/smaller dealers consider forking over $1200 per year for support? Me thinks they will spec alternate products into their jobs...

    In the space I work in, no one has showrooms; everything is either spec'ed by consultants or the client is shown similar live installs, a deal done over lunch and the client trusts us to provide the right solution. What would we do with $5kpa of demo gear. Answer: have it sit on the shelf for the advised period until we could sell it at a fraction of list price to clients. Ergo AMX loses money as old product is sold into jobs at massive reductions.
    vining wrote: »
    Each dealer will be required to have an ACE in every category and there's a couple other online things that were required like outside sales or something that will require 2 persons in the company. Now I need a clone unless having a split personallity counts.

    In total agreement. Now perhaps sales guys and maybe even designers can find the time to get their ACE but as a technical resource there is little to no chance of me finding enough time in any given year to gain mine, let alone retain it.

    No offense intended to AMX.
  • Thomas HayesThomas Hayes Junior Member Posts: 1,164
    wow, okay..I've been off sick for almost 3 weeks and haven't even turned on my computer. Can someone direct me to the tread so I can read what the 'bad' post was all about.
  • RicardoSiqueiraRicardoSiqueira Junior Member Posts: 373
    vining,

    I am also sad to see this new AMX policies, and since our dealership is small, we may also be affected by the new dealership requirements. Our shop has been a loyal AMX dealer for the past 10 years and we have been fortunate to have a few clients that like AMX or at least the way we program their systems. Some years our AMX sales are very good, way above average, but other years it may be below the new requirements. Well, let's see what happens and hopefully we won't need to move on to the 'dark side'.

    Changing the subject, I am also sad to see Vining, one of the best AMX Forum contributors being squeezed like this. His Forum postings has helped me in many occasions, specially his HVAC VST scheduler, which has made some of my clients very happy. The truth is that there are few members in this Forum that makes it invaluable to the new and current AMX dealers and Vining is one of them.

    Again, I would like to thank Vining for sharing his toughts and modules with us in this forum. Hopefully, he will continue in this forum. Happy Holidays to all!

    Ricardo
  • Jorde_VJorde_V UX Scientist Posts: 393
    Curious as well, feel free to pm me the link if you don't want to post it publicly.

    Just talked with my boss, he confirmed that you need to have an ACE in every category, as well as some new online prerequisites. However he was not sure about the 5000 in demo gear.

    I personally think this is a good thing, we've got a saying here 'het kaf van het koren scheiden' (that's dutch) which is 'separate the wheat from chaff' in English (which is exactly the same and has the same meaning), for those unfamiliar with it it basically means 'separate the men from the boys'.

    I also have to agree that the 1200 annual fee for tech support is fine by me, as we never use it anyway (other than RMA's and AR's). And I think that support for purely technical issues (basically being new, and not understanding what it's all about) is a good thing. However they will need to improve their products and their software a lot to justify doing this. As right now there are often issues that are not related to someone being new, but just new firmware/software issues. Remotes failing, we've got r4 turning their screen purple, I've been able to determine that it's related to the zigbee firmware combinations though. So it should only be for help.

    Their ambitions are good, they just need to pull them off correctly.
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,368
    RicardoSiqueira wrote:
    Well, let's see what happens and hopefully we won't need to move on to the 'dark side'.
    I won't even entertain that notion. I don't have it in me to go through another learning curve like I've done these last 5 years. So for me they'll just be a void until I re-discover fishing or something.

    Thanks for you kind comments and it's always been my pleasure. Going through this learning curve myself during the last 5 years I knew how it felt and if I could spare some folks the pains that I experienced I was more than happy to do so. Of course no pain, no gain so we all should suffer a little bit but I don't think the bean counters upstairs know the personal commitment it takes to even attemp to do this for a living even for a part timer like me who still has to do a bunch of other stuff.

    You have a safe and happy holidays as well.

    Dan
  • Spire_JeffSpire_Jeff Formerly Caffeinated Programmer Posts: 1,917
    Nerieru wrote: »
    I personally think this is a good thing, we've got a saying here 'het kaf van het koren scheiden' (that's dutch) which is 'separate the wheat from chaff' in English (which is exactly the same and has the same meaning), for those unfamiliar with it it basically means 'separate the men from the boys'.

    This makes me think of a philosophy my boss likes to use: Amx is looking for dealers to be committed, not simply interested. You know the difference between committed and interested? The chicken is interested in bacon and egg breakfast, the pig is committed.

    Jeff
  • TurnipTruckTurnipTruck Junior Member Posts: 1,485
    What I would most like to know is if AMX is operating at a loss serving the under $25K crowd. If so then it would seem that the new policies have some justification.
  • TurnipTruckTurnipTruck Junior Member Posts: 1,485
    Surely some dealers will get pushed out. I'm sure many have been cut as well.

    If AMX the product is so desirable that the potential customers of the ex-dealers get their AMX elsewhere, then these changes may be, at least, a break-even proposition for AMX. If those customer do not buy AMX, then I beleive that the wisdom of this may be judged later as it enters the history books.

    I do get a sense of "We're big enough that you need us, we don't need you"
  • ericmedleyericmedley Senior Member - 4000+ posts Posts: 4,177
    What I would most like to know is if AMX is operating at a loss serving the under $25K crowd. If so then it would seem that the new policies have some justification.

    I made this point a while back... I felt that AMX's desire to move down the market food chain might be counter productive. It made no sense dumbing down a current product line since it would devalue their current product line. We run into this now with some of their lower end audio stuff. I won't go into that right now...

    It also didn't make sense to create a newer product line that better fit the lower price point since it could only spread out their resources even more thinly.

    Add to this that they were venturing into waters where there were more competitors who were smaller, more nimble and to the point: hungrier, thus willing to undercut with the hopes of surviving long enough to eventually outlast the competition.

    Honestly, it doesn't bother me one way or another. It seems that every vendor I've ever dealt with over the years goes throgh this cycle. It's just part of the big circle of life... ;)
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,368
    ericmedley wrote:
    I felt that AMX's desire to move down the market food chain might be counter productive.
    My thoughts exactly! I always felt VA and some of the other stuff added to compete more closely w/ c tron in the resi market was a bad choice. They then brought in a ton of new dealers, gave them VA and said "go for it", you're now and AMX dealers, go install systems. There greedy little eyes all filled with dollar signs and hopes of a bigger resi market share.

    Now the pendulum is swinging in the other direction to compnesate for that initial push in the wrong direction. It will now swing to far in the opposite direction and mistakes will be felt in that direction too. Eventually, with luck & hope it will settle back in the middle and things will be stable again. Great if you're one of the bigs guys not getting clubbed in the head by the pendulum. :(

    Maybe if they tried little pushes instead of extreme pushes alot of these mistakes could have been avoided.
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