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Trio+ use for live gigs... wish I could change pedal assignments!

DaveGDaveG Posts: 7
edited March 2020 in DigiTech Products

I recently got my Trio+ with plans to try to use it live. But, I really don't want to go to all the trouble of recording a ton of song parts (that's a lot of work) and you then have to manage a bunch of SD cards also. I play wineries, breweries and bars for 3-4 hours at a time, and will run through 60 songs and am constantly adding new songs. I just want a little rhythm backing to liven up some of the songs. And need the flexibility to take requests as needed (as long as they're in my repertoire.. I'm over 100 songs now). So, I need a really smart drum machine, but also reliable one, and honestly the Trio+ seems to do it.

So far, the Trio+ seems to be the only one on the market that offers built-in looper, drums AND bass. I looked at the Boss RC-10R, and it looks cool, but it's not quite as "on -the-fly" as the Digitech. I did like that it has multiple parts for your selections, but no bass, and it doesn't "learn" what you're playing.

I've gone through most of my songs and practiced with the different genres and styles to figure out which I want for each song. I get VERY reproducible results if I preselect them each time. For some songs I have to also force ALT Time to either fast or slow. So, I find that as long as I preselect the genre and style, and provide the same input each time, I get the same output each time. In the end, it's just a computer. So, as long as I'm consistent with my input, it gets me the results I want each time.

I have all my setlists on my ipad, and I just added a little note to the top of each song saying something like "alt rock 2, no bass, alt time slow, normal intensity - teach full first verse". I set the dials and buttons, arm the band, start playing the guitar and after a line, or a verse, I have my band. I'm using table top mode and have the Trio+ mounted right in front of me to my mic stand and use the footswitch for start/stop and looping.

If there was a way to store and recall all my songs from the same SD card, I would probably do that. It would be super easy to have just recorded it and called it song #29 , on the ipad, and then select song 29. But, changing out cards all the time... ugh. Plus, I have heard there are issues with your songs getting overwritten. I wonder if you write protect the files if that might help. But, regardless, I don't want to change out SD cards.

The biggest downside is that I can't change footswitch assignments. I'd LOVE to be able to have the center switch select intensity level, rather than change parts, since, I'm not pre-recording ANY parts. During chorus, I would just change intensity (or I might even switch styles, if I could assign "next style" to the pedal). I sent an email to support asking if there was a way to do it, but it seems like Digitech hasn't really been keeping this product up to date. Maybe they're planning on releasing something new. The released the SDRUM, but frankly, I think that thing is not nearly as useful as the Trio+, and has less features.

The other downside is the endings. It would be great if it would let the drums and bass ring out, instead of just cutting out. But, it's livable so far, just not ideal. I modify the endings to accommodate.

So, my song structures I basically need about 30 seconds to read my notes and adjust the Trio+, I start playing with no band, and the band comes in after the first line (sometimes I play a full verse so the band comes in when I start to sing or sometimes I just play the root chord with the appropriate rhythm and use simple bass or no bass), I play the song, then either stop the band on the last chord as I let my chord ring out, I stop it and continue to play a line or a verse without the band. So, no big finished unfortunately. For some songs, i stop the entire band mid song, and then start it again as needed. A little tip, the band doesn't start again til you release the button, not when you press the button. So, I usually do a little 1 beat step on, 1 beat step off as I hit the next guitar chord. works okay. Kinda scared I might accidentally erase the band, but hasn't happened yet.

Anyways, if anybody knows how to hack this thing to change pedal assignments, let me know!

Comments

  • bether69bether69 Posts: 5
    edited March 2020

    Hi, I have Trio+, really cool pedal :-)
    I would like to have ability mute recorded Loops by using footswitch like I can do it with bass and drums in the next a firmware update.
    This will be great for live performance.

  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 7

    As long as you only do a single guitar loop, you can effectively mute it just by holding down the loop pedal button for 2 seconds. I do that for several songs where I want to loop the chords so I can solo over them, then I come out of the solo, start playing the chords again, hold down the loop button and the looped track stops (but the band keeps playing). And, if you want to start it again, just hold the loop pedal button down for 2 seconds again.

  • bether69bether69 Posts: 5
    edited March 2020

    Cool, but this is not real mute but only UNDO/ REDO :-(
    Here is my idea hack for real mute of LOOPER.
    Can be used momentary SPDT footswitch connected to LOOP potentiometer or waiting for firmware update with this ability :-)

    But even more, we can use two FS3X footswitches.
    First one FS3X can be connected and used at default mode.
    Second one can be connected to all potentiometers (LOOP, BASS, DRUM).

  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 7

    That pretty cool! But, I'm not really a fan of physically hacking it together on the board. Plus, not sure that would help me with my desire to simply change Part intensity. I'm guessing there's a circuit connector on the other side of that daughter board for each Part section though. You'd still have to drill a hole and mount another TRS jack and hardwire your selection as opposed to doing it in software. I can't believe they can't create some piece of software to let you do pedal assignments.

    It's honestly the biggest failing as far as I'm concerned. Not stopping me from using it, it's the best solution out there for what it does, IMO. But, they've got that USB port already there and it's basically unused in this product so far since it's supposedly only for firmware updates. Has there ever been one for the plus? I don't think so. It could be used for so much more. Some sort of limited software that essentially is creating new firmware updates but just for the pedal assignments. This product has been out a while, and the competition has failed to come up with a better alternative. I wish they would update.... or come out with a Trio plus plus model. :) Even though I just bought my Trio plus, I'd sell it in a heartbeat and pay for the new one.

  • HARMAN_EEldeHARMAN_EElde Posts: 1,100

    @DaveG said:
    That pretty cool! But, I'm not really a fan of physically hacking it together on the board. Plus, not sure that would help me with my desire to simply change Part intensity. I'm guessing there's a circuit connector on the other side of that daughter board for each Part section though. You'd still have to drill a hole and mount another TRS jack and hardwire your selection as opposed to doing it in software. I can't believe they can't create some piece of software to let you do pedal assignments.

    It's honestly the biggest failing as far as I'm concerned. Not stopping me from using it, it's the best solution out there for what it does, IMO. But, they've got that USB port already there and it's basically unused in this product so far since it's supposedly only for firmware updates. Has there ever been one for the plus? I don't think so. It could be used for so much more. Some sort of limited software that essentially is creating new firmware updates but just for the pedal assignments. This product has been out a while, and the competition has failed to come up with a better alternative. I wish they would update.... or come out with a Trio plus plus model. :) Even though I just bought my Trio plus, I'd sell it in a heartbeat and pay for the new one.

    There was a firmware update for the Trio+ that addressed some previous bugs and issues with the teaching and band playback. Most newer pedals have this loaded at manufacturing by now

    The likelihood of feature updates such as these is unknown at this time but we definitely have forwarded all of these ideas and suggestions to our product dev and marketing teams. What I've discussed with this team is that they want to have more control over the parts, what people like about the Trio+ but with these added enhancements. All I can say is stay tuned.

  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 7

    Played my first live gig with the Trio+ last night. Almost every song went as planned. Some of the songs glitched, because I will have selected alt time slow (or fast), and it will give me an INCREDIBLY slow Alt time (or fast time). I'm guessing it's because the RPM I am trying to hit is right near the cut off where it has to choose, and sometimes I play just a tad slow or a tad fast, and I get the wrong alt time. I have it in table top mode, so I quickly push the alt time button to fix it, but other than that, every song played exactly like I had rehearsed using the method I set up described above. It was only about 6 out of 60 songs that had this issue, so I may have to program a part for those 6 songs or remain lazy and just change the genre/style to something that is easier to get consistent timing. Looking forward to playing out again soon! Rest of the month no gigs due to friggin COVID-19. :(

  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 7

    FYI, I may have solved this problem if others are trying to do the same thing I am in live environments... I can enter what the BPM is supposed to be on my ipad app (I'm using bandhelper for set list management), and the app will flash the BPM count for me when i switch to that song so that I can try to hit the rhythm better. Will practice it during my time off!

  • HARMAN_EEldeHARMAN_EElde Posts: 1,100

    Thanks for the update Dave!

  • gmpahlgmpahl Posts: 1

    First off, I'm a HUGE Trio + fan. I've been using this tool for about 3 years. I have an acoustic duo group that plays out regularly. We have about 125 songs in our library and 90% of those use the Trio +. I have all of my music saved to my computer on my Trio Manager App and I create sets using the SD card(s) - usually about 3-4 cards per show.
    I've spent an enormous amount of time over the years creating songs on the SD cards and I love the way the system learns what I'm trying to do and creates an accompaniment! I never have to mess with temp or genres. It seems to "get me" each time I create a song. Sometimes I have to adjust the alt tempo button to slow or speed up the tempo but that's pretty rare. Each song has its own challenges, but usually I figure it out (that's half the fun!)
    We recently recorded 13 cover songs using the trio + for a CD/Digital list that we sell at our shows. The producer was blown away by the ability the Trio + gives us to sound like a full band with only one guitar (my bandmate is the lead singer - no instrument).
    Here are my asks:
    1. I would like the drum and bass to ring out at the end of the song instead of just stopping.
    2. I would like the trio to have an LED readout that displays the name of the song being played from the SD card instead of just a number from 1-12. I assign the song name using the Trio Manager but can not tell what song is playing. I attach a sticky note on my OnSong App's sheet music files to help me with this.
    3. I would like the trio's genre, tempo and song choice buttons to have "click stops" to prevent me from accidentally moving the button during playback (very embarrassing when my slow songs starts out with a hip-hop beat because I accidentally hit the genre button)
    4. I would like to find a way to start a song w/o the trio and have it join me at a certain point w/o me having to hope that I hit the footswitch exactly on (or off) beat, as I do now.
    5. Finally, I would like to be able to record more than 12 songs. I now have 10 micro SD cards that come with me to each gig with the song list attached attached so I know what song goes with what number - very annoying!

    Keep up the great work Digitech! I sure hope you guys are looking at the next generation Trio+ or at least a firmware update for enhancements!

  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 7
    edited April 2020

    @gmpahl... I use it differently than you do, since I basically go live each time with NO prerecorded songs. But, if I could have the LED feature you're talking about, and have more than 12 songs on an SD card, I would totally start prerecording. They could have a rotator knob that quickly scrolls through your songs to get the right one. If I could have 100+ songs on 1 SD card, and they are labeled 1-100+ along with a name, I could have the song number on BandHelper (it's like OnSong) and I would just rotate through until I got to that number (and the name would help with verification), and then I'd do it. The 100+ could be limited purely by storage space on the card. But, I am just not into changing SD cards constantly. I guess i could have one SD card per set, and change the SD card during set breaks, but I often will flip around through songs, or take requests, and with only 12 on an SD card, your ability to flip around quickly is limited. I'd be walking around with 10 SD cards, and need them handy on stage (and backups in case I can't find one or lose one). So many things to manage. But, yes, after several months, I have recorded several videos now and they are all GREAT. I get a lot of positive comments.

  • HARMAN_EEldeHARMAN_EElde Posts: 1,100

    @gmpahl said:
    First off, I'm a HUGE Trio + fan. I've been using this tool for about 3 years. I have an acoustic duo group that plays out regularly. We have about 125 songs in our library and 90% of those use the Trio +. I have all of my music saved to my computer on my Trio Manager App and I create sets using the SD card(s) - usually about 3-4 cards per show.
    I've spent an enormous amount of time over the years creating songs on the SD cards and I love the way the system learns what I'm trying to do and creates an accompaniment! I never have to mess with temp or genres. It seems to "get me" each time I create a song. Sometimes I have to adjust the alt tempo button to slow or speed up the tempo but that's pretty rare. Each song has its own challenges, but usually I figure it out (that's half the fun!)
    We recently recorded 13 cover songs using the trio + for a CD/Digital list that we sell at our shows. The producer was blown away by the ability the Trio + gives us to sound like a full band with only one guitar (my bandmate is the lead singer - no instrument).
    Here are my asks:
    1. I would like the drum and bass to ring out at the end of the song instead of just stopping.
    2. I would like the trio to have an LED readout that displays the name of the song being played from the SD card instead of just a number from 1-12. I assign the song name using the Trio Manager but can not tell what song is playing. I attach a sticky note on my OnSong App's sheet music files to help me with this.
    3. I would like the trio's genre, tempo and song choice buttons to have "click stops" to prevent me from accidentally moving the button during playback (very embarrassing when my slow songs starts out with a hip-hop beat because I accidentally hit the genre button)
    4. I would like to find a way to start a song w/o the trio and have it join me at a certain point w/o me having to hope that I hit the footswitch exactly on (or off) beat, as I do now.
    5. Finally, I would like to be able to record more than 12 songs. I now have 10 micro SD cards that come with me to each gig with the song list attached attached so I know what song goes with what number - very annoying!

    Keep up the great work Digitech! I sure hope you guys are looking at the next generation Trio+ or at least a firmware update for enhancements!

    Glad it's working for you and you are enjoying the Trio+! Those are all awesome suggestions! I will make sure to get them to our product dev internally.

  • TesliJewTesliJew Posts: 2

    A smart device. I haven't been able to get off for half a day. I figured out the basic functions without even looking at the manual , immediately recorded a track for a warm-up and tried out different solo options, then Black Sabbath, then Pink Floyd. In the latter case, I thought that I should choose the "blues" mode, but it turned out that I like" rock " more. For classes and inventing songs, this is simply an indispensable thing. Previously, to get a similar result, you had to connect to the computer via DI, create drums there, record the bass separately, and then reach for the mouse and the keyboard with each unsuccessful take. There is also a normal looper, and the bass and drums comes up with herself, and what I used to mess around with for two hours, now it is created in five minutes. And then-play, train, come up with a solo or vocal-whatever. I even found some information about this blues guitar tab and I really like it.

  • korayemkorayem Posts: 1

    The Trio+ needs one thing: midi in with a list of commands to control every knob/button on the pedal.

    It blows my mind that it doesnt. So much potential to control things in LIVE situation.

    The second thing trio+ needs is loading WAV files as songs. Currently I can record in the trio+ first then copy it to PC. What I want is the opposite, load existing WAVs I have into trio+. This would bring so much creativity to artists.

  • HARMAN_EEldeHARMAN_EElde Posts: 1,100

    @korayem said:
    The Trio+ needs one thing: midi in with a list of commands to control every knob/button on the pedal.

    It blows my mind that it doesnt. So much potential to control things in LIVE situation.

    The second thing trio+ needs is loading WAV files as songs. Currently I can record in the trio+ first then copy it to PC. What I want is the opposite, load existing WAVs I have into trio+. This would bring so much creativity to artists.

    We have these suggestion to our product dev for sure. No idea if/when a new version of the Trio+ will be released but definitely those are features that have been suggested!

  • TesliJewTesliJew Posts: 2
    edited September 1

    Unfortunately, there is no perfect technique or instrument; you always have to compromise. Or you have to get used to it and learn to use what you have. I often hear from my friends who compose music that they experience similar inconveniences. But models where these disadvantages aren't there, are others. I can only advise you to keep up with updates, news in the music world from sources like the cook trio. You can ask questions and chat about the music service on the forums. I wish you good luck with your work.

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