Will the absence in RESI affect Commercial?

vining

I was reading an article about C4's acquisition of Pakedge when I came across this sentence:
"From the Pakedge side, Pak said that the brand?along with all of its management, engineering, and support staff?will remain intact and will operate as before. ?Open integration with all control platforms will remain strong,? he said, ?whether you use Control4, C_restron, Savant, or any other system.?" , (of course they didn't have to change the name of C_restron) and once again I'm reminded of how invisible AMX has become and started to wonder how this might affect AMX's commercial sales.

C4 has already started to aggressively pursue the profitable commercial sector and with their acquisition of Pakedge you can probably soon expect IP video switchers, Signage and other products geared towards that sector similar to companies AMX has acquired in the past decade. Now that C4 has such a large presence in the higher end resi market they now also have better access to the CEO's and EXECs that will be looking for solutions for their corporate needs and where is the first place they'll look? At system integrator s they already know or at products they're already familiar with that do basically everything they want.

IMHO I think AMX's retreat from the RESI market will soon have a major negative affect on their commercial side with C4 taking a big chunk out of that market too. How long before AMX is out of the control system market all together and just selling hardware solutions but as I've said in other threads I believe the control system drives the hardware sales and without controls system sales the hardware sales will be much harder. I don't see the experienced AMX programmers that have had to move on to other systems returning if this continues much longer and without programmers, well, things look bleak.

JasonS

All I see out of AMX is the SVSi stuff anymore. It has been months since I touched an AMX project. I am forcibly being converted to a C_tron programmer, and I am not happy about it. I fear that anything Harmon eventually does will be too little to late.

vining

Harmon/AMX is having a road show in Connecticut next month that I RSVP'd that I would attend despite the fact that I'm a resi guy. I'll be like a duck out of water there but I'm curious to see what they'll show and discuss. I'm sure it will be a waste of my time but I have to see first hand before the last nail is driven into the coffin.

ericmedley

Unfortunately, so much of this is a "black box" in that none of these companies are very forthright with actual sales data. Everything I read or hear is anecdotal and suspect to opinion vs. fact. What I've seen (anecdotal again) is that each company is kind of settled into their own camps again. For example, in the Govt/Military installations AMX is still undisputed king. I've been in installs lately that have more AMX gear in the single space than my entire 6 years at a high-end Resi integerator in the mid 2000s. The big clue you can see that bears AMX's domination in this space out is the recent attack on the "AMX Backdoor Security" A few people I happen to know who were close to the article told me it was indeed an attack article.

Cr3str0n is seen about 8 to 1 over AMX in most of my Commercial clients. (Commercial being corporate, retail, educational, financial) I will admit - I no longer do any Cr3str0n. I just can't stand it. Also, if you want to be fair and talk about how AMX has been trying for some time to come up with a "programmer-less" solution... Cr3str0n is doing so on a much higher degree and they are not above actually competing against their version of VIP programmers.

But, to your point Vining - We honestly don't have much in the way of facts when it comes to the larger picture. It's all hearsay. You only have what your eyes and P&L statement show. I know I'm okay right now doing almost exclusively AMX. But, I will also say that I'm working in spaces I had no idea I'd be working in. I don't have this frothy infatuation with AMX. It's just my opinion that no other solution out there does this kind of thing better. having the ability to write code and program a system on my own has produced some truly unique solutions that keep me working today.

We, unfortunately, have no control over what markets they try to target or how they sell their stuff. (or worst yet - how they treat their dealers)

vining

The roadshow yesterday was pretty much as I expected, mostly about SVSI and I think realizing the small presence AMX now has in all markets except Mil/Gov they made sure to drill home the fact that SVSI works with any system not just an AMX control system. SVSI is pretty cool not sure if it's any better than JAP and I'd bet that it's only a matter of time before C4 has Pakedge develop something similar to take more of AMX's dwindling commercial sales away.

​When I spoke with one of the AMX guys he wasn't aware how dead there forums now are or that most of the 10+ year programmers have now been dragged kicking and screaming by their employers to other systems or that those companies no longer list AMX as a product used or sold, usually just Savant and C4. I told him that IMHO once the programmers are gone they won't be coming back and with them eventually will go most of the sales and AMX gear since I believe the control system drives most of the back room gear sales. SVSI comes in with their own market share so that doesn't count yet but they might do better by distancing themselves from the AMX brand name and target the dominant control system platforms like C_restron, Savant and C4.

One of the other guys told me that AMX left the resi market because there was no money so I said then where are most of C4's annual 160 million in revenue coming from considering they're probably 75% / 25% resi/commercial at this point. His reply was really,160 million! What are AMX's annual sales I asked. I also brought up the point of this thread and that the execs will likely bring in systems they're familiar with for their corporate needs and since AMX doesn't embrace the resi market and for the most part it's invisible in that market they're not likely to get that lead in for sales.

IMHO relying on just the niche mil/gov market is very dangerous for long term sustainability as a brand and as a brand that's about the only sector where the AMX name is even a recognized these days.


As far as turn out goes for this Roadshow event it was also about as I expected, mostly AMX reps, Harmon reps, an SVSI rep and maybe five dealers eventually showed up in room with sixty seats. The presentation had to start late because only one of my guys and myself we there on time. I'm glad I went but I didn't see anything that would give me hope for a positive change.