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The absence of AMX

viningvining X MemberPosts: 4,358
It makes me sick to my stomach every time I have to fill out a questionaire or dealer app or read articles of new devices that list integration platforms they compatable with and AMX is never in the list. AMX is gone from the discussion to the point where it's barely discussed even on its own forum.

This is another list I just came across and it makes me feel like having been a dealer and pretty good programmer for around 12 years now holds no merit what so ever.

Are you currently installing/integrating any of these automation solutions? *
Crestron
Control4
Elan
Lutron
Savant
URC
RTI
Russound
NuVo
Vantage
Honeywell
2Gig
None of these

Comments

  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,358
    And of course Craptron is at the top of the list **************and because this new forum just sucks I can't even edit the previous post.
  • ericmedleyericmedley Senior Member - 4000+ posts Posts: 4,177
    I still see AMX in listings and contracts I get. but, I think we work in different markets. Oddly enough, I worry because they typically require XYZ credentials or competencies. I've had to explain more than once that my current credentials are the equivalent of whatever was the case 4 years ago when they drafted the contract.
  • MLaletasMLaletas Junior Member Posts: 226
    Yea it sucks, I hate seeing these posts because ignorance is bliss sometimes. We do Cre$tron and AMX probably a 60 / 40 split between the two respectively, maybe a little bit more recently...
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,358
    Yea it sucks, I hate seeing these posts because ignorance is bliss sometimes. We do Cre$tron and AMX probably a 60 / 40 split between the two respectively, maybe a little bit more recently...
    Well I guess AMX's upper management is extremely blissful. :)
  • bwestlakebwestlake Junior Member Posts: 82
    vining wrote: »
    It makes me sick to my stomach every time I have to fill out a questionaire or dealer app or read articles of new devices that list integration platforms they compatable with and AMX is never in the list. AMX is gone from the discussion to the point where it's barely discussed even on its own forum.

    This is another list I just came across and it makes me feel like having been a dealer and pretty good programmer for around 12 years now holds no merit what so ever.

    Are you currently installing/integrating any of these automation solutions? *
    ********
    Control4
    Elan
    Lutron
    Savant
    URC
    RTI
    Russound
    NuVo
    Vantage
    Honeywell
    2Gig
    None of these


    Control4 (No thanks)
    Elan (They quit making everything I used)
    Lutron (Sometimes)
    Savant (No)
    URC (Most jobs. Use with AMX all the time)
    RTI (Sometimes)
    Russound (Only if I have to)
    NuVo (Frequently)
    Vantage (Yes. My favorite lighting control system)
    Honeywell (Yes)
    2Gig (Not yet)

    I still prefer AMX over anything else for programming and performance. I just think that their focus is in commercial because that's their most profitable area. I haven't even had a regional manager for about a year. Nobody calls (unless we owe money.)
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,358
    bwestlake wrote:

    I still prefer AMX over anything else for programming and performance. I just think that their focus is in commercial because that's their most profitable area. I haven't even had a regional manager for about a year. Nobody calls (unless we owe money.)
    I hate using other systems but feel I have no choice since most other systems supply the drivers needed and I'm at the point where I won't waste time writing them myself. If I thought there was a future with AMX I probably would and a few years back I was looking forward to tackling a HEOS module but to spend that amount of time when I have no confidence in AMX makes no sense. Now if AMX wrote any modules currently needed in resi I probably wouldn't like them either but at least I'd get the sense that they wanted to participate in that sector. I've said many times that if C4 can do $140m a year mostly resi then there is plenty of money to be made and by being absent in the resi market they are opening themselves up to losing more of their commercial sales too since most of the top execs are being exposed to the competition when those other systems are being installed in their homes and yachts. As seen here on the forums most programmers are already gone and without them who is going to spec an AMX system when there's no one left to program them.
  • TonyAngeloTonyAngelo Code Monkey Posts: 315
    vining wrote: »
    I hate using other systems but feel I have no choice since most other systems supply the drivers needed and I'm at the point where I won't waste time writing them myself. If I thought there was a future with AMX I probably would and a few years back I was looking forward to tackling a HEOS module but to spend that amount of time when I have no confidence in AMX makes no sense. Now if AMX wrote any modules currently needed in resi I probably wouldn't like them either but at least I'd get the sense that they wanted to participate in that sector. I've said many times that if C4 can do $140m a year mostly resi then there is plenty of money to be made and by being absent in the resi market they are opening themselves up to losing more of their commercial sales too since most of the top execs are being exposed to the competition when those other systems are being installed in their homes and yachts. As seen here on the forums most programmers are already gone and without them who is going to spec an AMX system when there's no one left to program them.


    At this point the other company (the one we can't say on these boards for some stupid reason) is also abandoning all but the highest end of the resi sector. They are making the same calculations now that AMX made years ago.

    You keep talking about all the money C4 is making, but they actually reported a loss last year: http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/ctrl/financials

    And after AMX's experiences with the R4 added to their video server debacle, they were probably glad to wipe their hands of resi and move exclusively into the much greener pastures of commercial.
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,358
    TonyAngelo wrote: »


    At this point the other company (the one we can't say on these boards for some stupid reason) is also abandoning all but the highest end of the resi sector. They are making the same calculations now that AMX made years ago.

    You keep talking about all the money C4 is making, but they actually reported a loss last year: http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/ctrl/financials

    And after AMX's experiences with the R4 added to their video server debacle, they were probably glad to wipe their hands of resi and move exclusively into the much greener pastures of commercial.
    With out looking deeply into their annual report I'd surmise that reporting a loss is some what meaningless with their acquisitions, investments and product development. $160m in sales is stll $160m in sales and whether theirs profit or not is almost irrelevent.

    Plus AMX bad decisions and products acqusitions or developement has nothing to do with resi per se. The R4 is just as useful is commercial as it is resi, it was just a bad design. The Met-Ecom door intercom was developed for some commercial hotel or something in Dubai I think and that was crap that could have been great for resi if it wasn't crap. VA, AMX Home, Matrix Audio were also terrible waste of resources. I don't pay close attention to krestron but I'd bet they still develope modules for popular resi products that aren't practical for dealers to develope like Sonos or Heos and that's really all AMX would have to do, write modules for the current complex devices, create a decent remote or leverage URC or RTI (buy Joe H's mod) and just be in the game. Home Auto is going to be a $1b industry by 2022 and even Krestron was listed and a leader in that sector, AMX again not mentioned. Of course AMX or Krestron, Savant or even C4 won't have the largest share in that but the could have a big piece of the high end pie which also translates to the commercial pie and even if krestron drops resi to the same extent that AMX did it will affect their commercial side too and with the expansion of C4 they'll be taking more and more of that pie too.
  • ericmedleyericmedley Senior Member - 4000+ posts Posts: 4,177
    vining wrote: »
    With out looking deeply into their annual report I'd surmise that reporting a loss is some what meaningless with their acquisitions, investments and product development. $160m in sales is stll $160m in sales and whether theirs profit or not is almost irrelevent. etc....

    I've always been a bit confused by AMX's approach to market placement over the last decade or so. It struck me as a weird blend of "Venture Capitalist" meets "Old-skool hardware manufacturer" I know the goal stated way back when was to increase AMX's footprint in the technology vertical by 10-fold (or whatever) This is a laudable goal but what the heck does that mean in practice?

    I've worked in the music industry pretty much all my life and am familiar with the whole notion of "the hit" When one looks at what happens to make a hit, the puzzling fact is that there really seems to be no cut-and-dried method. There is certainly a formula, but that formula seemingly works well in one place and not others. I spent a lot of time working with folks who were clearly grabbing every spitball they could and hurling it at the wall - hoping and praying that one of them would stick - thus paying for all the others that didn't. The common feature, however, was that each attempt still had a certain level of quality and integrity demanded equally of all.

    With AMX's version of this (the Venture Capitalist thing) - it really just seemed like wild flailing with no clear focus. The problem with the flailing is that unlike us music producers/labels, there is not a lot of attention paid to the vast majority of failures. They just "didn't happen" in the eyes of the public. But, with a technology company like AMX the failures drew more attention than the successes.

    That factor combined with the other facet of how AMX does its thing (the old-skool hardware manufacturer ) really did a number on the brand's reputation both in the end-user and dealership markets. I have zero clients who are in any way interested in the newest touch panel offerings coming from anyone. I am constantly having discussions with them on how to circumvent the need for them altogether and on how we can get them on an iPad or something. It's just a damaged concept that has been ruined by its own mass and inertia. During the warm afterglow of a successful system deployment - the conversation unfailingly turns to the pretty touch panel lovingly mounted in a beautiful frame on the wall outside the conference room. The discussion is not about its merits or beauty, but the shaking of heads on how much the thing cost and how much of a rip off it is. I'm using the harsh term "Rip Off" because that is how it's perceived. Never mind the fact that it, in and of itself, is not the problem. But, when your product is perceived as a "Rip Off" you've got some big problems with the product concept.

    This is just one small example of the larger problem we all face. I don't feel it does any good to bemoan it or point fingers at who or what was/is to blame. And I honestly don't know if there is anything to be done about it or time to change the trajectory. My only long-term experience is working in an industry that has genuinely been decimated by technology (in a small part) and by the public's perception of it (in a huge way) - the music industry. When the public feels your product is not worth the asking price you have little you can do about it. And spending all your energy just saying it louder and with more pretty adjectives does nothing but make you look silly in the eyes of your clients.

    It's extremely hard to sell something when someone else offers the same basic thing for 10 to 20 times less cost. At that point in the argument - your only defense is to explain the quality difference. But in today's climate - I can assure you that argument falls on deaf ears. It is flat-out a bad business model. Additionally, when you've spent the past decade diddling around trying to win the technology lottery instead of developing and shaping a market vertical, you're in twice as much trouble.
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