DVX - 4K

ericmedleyericmedley Senior Member - 3709 PostsPosts: 4,126

Probably a question better asked of Reps or AMX Engineering... But does anyone know if the DVX is planned for full 4K throughput? I fully realize that for most standard board rooms/classrooms/etc.. 4K is not currently necessary. But, I have on of those sales guys that feels if something doesn't have the biggest numbers in its model number it is somehow inferior.

The competition's similar product DMPS3 does offer 4K Just curious.
e

Answers

  • fogled@mizzou[email protected] h4x354x0r Posts: 539

    The NCite 813 series is the 4K replacement for the DVX. Pretty much the same thing, same API, just all HDMI/DXLite in & out. Not integrated into RPM yet tho. I've got several in boxes, but haven't actually deployed any yet. Not particularly looking forward to being a "some of the first product off the assembly line" guinea pig when I bust them out. Bets at least 1 out of 5 will be defective? I need reminded to do all the firmware updates before bothering to try anything with them.

  • HARMAN_ChrisHARMAN_Chris Harman Professional University Posts: 273

    Eric, great question. The NCite is a 4K switcher, but only has 1 discrete output and should not be considered a replacement to DVX. The windowing capability and specific I/O offering meets a specific market need. Product management is aware of the market need of a 4k DVX., but are juggling a few different competing priorities. Stay tuned.

  • fogled@mizzou[email protected] h4x354x0r Posts: 539

    Totes agree the NCite is a weak replacement for the DVX, but that's what our reps have been telling us when we ask. Happy to hear there might be a more robust offering in the future.

  • zack.boydzack.boyd Smacks Keyboard Repeatedly Posts: 92

    @HARMAN_Chris said:
    Eric, great question. The NCite is a 4K switcher, but only has 1 discrete output and should not be considered a replacement to DVX. The windowing capability and specific I/O offering meets a specific market need. Product management is aware of the market need of a 4k DVX., but are juggling a few different competing priorities. Stay tuned.

    Soooo Infocomm then?

  • richardhermanrichardherman not-so-junior member Posts: 163

    Also waiting for this. I agree with Eric that for most setups 4K isn't really necessary, but the client still demands it anyway, for 'future proofing' their AV installations (and then never uses it). We used to sell a lot DVX's, now we sell none. They will have to something about the flash interface for the switcher device, because end of support for that is coming (and maybe, please, integrate DXLink endpoint configuration)
    Would be nice if a version without the NX controller would also be available, like other manafacturers do. It would make it easer to 'standardize' the switcher, because it would open it up to other control systems.

  • ericmedleyericmedley Senior Member - 3709 Posts Posts: 4,126

    @HARMAN_Chris said:
    Eric, great question. The NCite is a 4K switcher, but only has 1 discrete output and should not be considered a replacement to DVX. The windowing capability and specific I/O offering meets a specific market need. Product management is aware of the market need of a 4k DVX., but are juggling a few different competing priorities. Stay tuned.

    Thanks Chris,
    I do hope AMX comes back with some kind of solution either updating the DVX or beefing up the NCite 813 type (I did know about this one and yes, it doesn't meet the mark due to output limitations.

    Fair warning: old coot long-winded reply coming...

    Over the pas year I took a 'day job' at an integrator to take a break from indie programming. It was an eye-opening gig for me in that I was one of many programmers and it was mainly a C3$t0n house. Don't worry - my loathing for that kind of programming is even more pointed after the experience. But, on thing I did see is the medium-sized multi-use rooms (confernce/classrooms/training/etc.. is very much alive and kicking.

    These are spaces best suited for DVX type integrated controllers. We don't seem to need as many rs232 or IRs as we used to. But the need is still there.

    I don't know if my experience with AMX is accurate but it's felt like there was a very serious push toward Video over IP (SVSi) but in my experience they (AMX Engineering) were deploying systems in places where it was just overkill. And another unexpected effect is that since the SVSi solution pretty much requires a pretty high level network switching environment to function properly - it was very hard for my clients to fly under the radar of the IT departments of the places we were installing it.

    The usual routine was that we ordered the recommended network gear pre-configured by AMX. Since the client saw network gear on the Bill of Materials, it inevitably ended up at the desk of an IT person who would see the prices and howl like scorched cats saying, "We can get the exact same gear for half that price! You tell those stupid AV guys we'll by the gear and install it and tell them to keep their grubby hands off it." And the fun would begin... IT guys really no next to nothing about have AV gear can effect a network. I won't say who - but I had one client doing a hospital new addition that the angry IT people insisted we use their network. We fired up the audio and video boxes and (not kidding) the hosptial's network crashed. I had the IT guy's attention from the point forward and much more cooperation.

    In short - even the though SVSi solution can be put into a single room solution and work, there's a lot of undesired overhead that shows up on the back end that most AV firms don't realize and don't bill for. In the end - no one wins. SVSi doesn't make sense (IMHO) until you get to larger scale campus-wide video distribution. Then it wins hands down.

    So, I feel like AMX, in a effort to get the whole Video-Over-IP part of their solution some traction pushed it into areas that it is frankly not the best choice. I also feel like (my speculation mind you) that I'm sure internally when the discussion of "Hey, should we bring the DVX up to 4K?" the response was something along the lines of, "Why? We've already got SVSi. The DVX is a dinosaur..."

    But my stint last year as a Cr3$t0n programmer proved that notion to be not true. I personally programmed over 150 of their cursed DMPS3s that are a comparable product to the DVX (and not as good or reliable IMHO)

    So, if any of my ravings hit the mark and internally AMX is putting it's money on the SVSi becoming its video switch/control system of choice, I'd say they're missing a market that is very much still alive and well and (dare I say) preferred. I feel like AMX is somehow ashamed of the NI/NX platform. The fact that I still have first generation NI processors out there still running viable and useful control systems is a testament to just how well designed the product line is. It's not sexy and new. But, if the DMPS3 is any mark, sexy cool is not what sells. reliable does. So, throw the petty "It's gotta be 4K" crown a bone and put a new chip set in the thing and sell the crap out of the DVXs.
    e

  • John NagyJohn Nagy CineTouch Product Manager Posts: 1,455

    Same thing happened with the Ennova switches that once were the new AMX touchstone. Every system had to have an Ennova switch, or the job "wasn't an AMX job" according the the market gurus at the time. Countless resi dealers pressed the facts back at AMX that homes with normal TV's don't need and won't pay for a flexible multires switch that cost multiples of the competent competition. So AMX heard that, and reasoned that resi itself "wasn't an AMX job" and 90% of the resi dealers were chopped. And it seems 90% of the 10% left have since quit AMX on their own.

    Now it's SVSI, sell it or hit the road.

  • HARMAN_ChrisHARMAN_Chris Harman Professional University Posts: 273

    The matrix switcher is most certainly not dead. Like Eric mentioned, there are still a high volume of rooms that fit into that product category based on needed feature set and price point. I fully anticipate additional product announcements in this space and do not anticipate moving away from the category for quite some time. Video over IP is a fantastic solution, but it is not a universal solution for all applications and environments. Much effort has been placed on getting our Enova line of products approved to reside ON Department of Defense networks - this is the highest device rating in the video switching space and we are proud of it! Marketing teams will tout many things, but if you were to dig into the details, you would see that the AMX product has more certifications in this space than our competitors.

  • JasonSJasonS If I had known it was going to be that kind of party... Posts: 225
    It is too bad that AMX's inability to deliver product in a reasonable time frame lately is pushing government customers to the other guys. I used to program AMX exclusively, now I do mostly Crestron, had to, to stay employed. I do government work exclusively.
  • fogled@mizzou[email protected] h4x354x0r Posts: 539

    Something like an SDX 4K that was an SVSi head instead of a DXLink head would be sweet. But the SVSi switch requirements are a bit of a drag; Atlona can run AVoIP on just about any old switch. OTOH, Biamp is even stricter, needing TSN switches for their products, but the control their products give you over the entire Audio-Video distribution system is fabulous. SVSi is the least expensive of these, and Biamp's boxes are freaking huge.

    In my latest 2-room dividable configuration, I still used the basic matrix switcher solution & AMX control, but just went with another vendor's 4K matrix switch. One of our regional integrators doing a high profile job here recently absolutely slammed AMX in a web conference call about the system design. They were pushing an Extron system. We recently lost another big system to Crestron too, although that was really our own inability to get to the job and develop it.

    I honestly feel bad for the old-school AMX guys, including my own reps. I invested 15 years in this industry on this platform. I accomplished a lot of things that were new, needed, and fairly incredible for their time. We ended up "kissing the ring" with RMS, and RPM. But by then, the mergers had already started.

    I don't think this is the utopia anyone envisioned.

  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,328

    @[email protected] said:

    I don't think this is the utopia anyone envisioned.

    Amen!

  • ericmedleyericmedley Senior Member - 3709 Posts Posts: 4,126

    With all due respect to Extron and their fine array of products... having programmed and commissioned many of their systems, both large and small, I feel your integrator ftrimd is totally off base. They are a nightmare. From the multiple software DKs needed to program to the frankly bizarre feature that are proudly bullet pointed on their website but then find the support people trekking yiu that the feature does not work...to their weak troubleshooting utilities, it’s a far less reliable install.

    Universities love it, however. To me the best Extron Gig is selling and installing the gear and letting the School staff do the programming.

  • simosimo Junior Member Posts: 5
    edited April 21

    @ericmedley said:

    I don't know if my experience with AMX is accurate but it's felt like there was a very serious push toward Video over IP (SVSi) but in my experience they (AMX Engineering) were deploying systems in places where it was just overkill.

    @ericmedley said:

    Universities love it, however. To me the best Extron Gig is selling and installing the gear and letting the School staff do the programming.

    HI Eric, You have hit the Nail on the Head. I come from within the 'University Sector'. IT departments now run the AV department. AV over IP is being rammed down the throats of IT executive managers at every conference and tradeshow in this sector, so its 'me too', 'thats what they are doing', 'thats what we should be doing' , "Just plug and play', 'use your existing network infrastucture'.
    When in reality, even the network team is digging up their their old college notes on multicast to make 'This new av stuff' work. Quite a few are now running completely separate 'AV' Network infrastructure ... it will get more seamless and mainstream, However I think its being sold and marketing and at a executive High level and then people like us are left to make it work and report back on the reality of the 'savings' (time).

    Like you said, creates alot of overhead for simple small meeting/space/classroom setups. However awesome for the larger multi purpose venue with a crap load of AV busses.

  • simosimo Junior Member Posts: 5

    @[email protected] said:

    I honestly feel bad for the old-school AMX guys, including my own reps. I invested 15 years in this industry on this platform. I accomplished a lot of things that were new, needed, and fairly incredible for their time. We ended up "kissing the ring" with RMS, and RPM. But by then, the mergers had already started.

    I don't think this is the utopia anyone envisioned.

    Its getting pretty gnarly. The last industry conference I attended Craptron (major sponsor) offered to buy back everyones AMX gear in EDU sector during the keynote if they switched.

  • zack.boydzack.boyd Smacks Keyboard Repeatedly Posts: 92

    @simo said:

    Its getting pretty gnarly. The last industry conference I attended Craptron (major sponsor) offered to buy back everyones AMX gear in EDU sector during the keynote if they switched.

    This isn't something new. They've been doing this for a long time.

Sign In or Register to comment.