Elan <=> AMX Integration
mkassal
Posts: 12
Has anyone out there integrated AMX with a whole house Elan system?
The elan touchpanels are great to control the Elan audio and video of a resi home and setting up the system is straight forward, quick and easy BUT The MVP8400 is the perfect media room touchscreen that I would like to have working with Elan.
There has to be a few out there that attempted this.......
I have searched everywhere for this....nothing to be found or mentioned.
Any comments, feedback, code snippets
, would be greatly appreciated!
Aloha
Mike Kassal
The elan touchpanels are great to control the Elan audio and video of a resi home and setting up the system is straight forward, quick and easy BUT The MVP8400 is the perfect media room touchscreen that I would like to have working with Elan.
There has to be a few out there that attempted this.......
I have searched everywhere for this....nothing to be found or mentioned.
Any comments, feedback, code snippets
, would be greatly appreciated!Aloha
Mike Kassal
0
Comments
I have worked with Elan and controlling their components are straight forward. If you are an Elan Delaer then you should have access to their protocol documents. No real trick here.
Any chance you have a module that I could use as an example to review?
Did you implement all functionality minus the video features?
Elan just mentioned to me today they are releasing a wireless TP this year, but my interest lies with the MVP for sure. The elan system is greatly limited with only 4 serial ports possible, but the audio and some video features makes it a good platform to work from.
Thanks in advance.
Mike.
You could also integrate the VIA's with an AMX processor using the IR output from a VIA! and attach the emitter to an AXD-IR+. You then have to learn the AMX Channel codes in to an IR file for the VIA! and assign the codes appropriately. Then simply create a bunch of BUTTON_EVENT[]s for the AXD-IR+ that execute the appropriate commands.
With that said, some problems that I foresee. First, you are creating some extra work in the you have to handle the programming of two different systems that are very similar. This means that you will have to determine which system will handle each device. Then, if you need both controllers to control the same device, you will need to formulate a method for both processors to communicate with each other to accomplish this control.
Another issue is that the VIA!s lack any kind of 2 way communication that you have access to. (unless they released the ability to write 2way serial drivers) This essentially turns the VIA! into a pretty keypad without feedback as far as the AMX processor is concerned.
I think the motivation for this project is most likely linked to the cost of the touchpanels, but my opinion would be to pick one system and use it. The costs to integrate the two systems will most likely cost more in the long run than making the customer pick one system. I am thinking not only of the cost of the equipment, but the cost to develop the integration, the cost in man hours of development, the cost in man hours to troubleshoot the problems that arise when the customer tries to do something different than the developer imagined, the potential cost in future business if the system doesn't appear to work well to the customer,...
This does not mean that such integration is impossible, I just don't see it being very practical. If I were forced to implement the VIA!s with an AMX system, I would probably insist on an SC4 and write a serial driver to interface with the AMX system. These would be the only Elan pieces I would use. I would use an Autopatch (or similar) A/V switcher for the audio and video and you could even handle the video being sent to the VIA!s in this manner.
Jeff
P.S.
Anytime I have tried to extend a systems capability solely to save the customer money, it has always come back to bite me in the butt. And by extend capabilities, I mean beyond what is normally accepted as possible by the manufacturer.
This helpfull feedback is what I was looking for, I could not get this info from reading the Elan manuals. I was wrong to assume that two way commuciation was possible :
>>Another issue is that the VIA!s lack any kind of 2 way communication that you have access to. (unless they released the ability to write 2way serial drivers) This essentially turns the VIA! into a pretty keypad without feedback as far as the AMX processor is concerned.
<<
The thinking here is this:
Use what seems a decent self-contained whole house AV system for high end residential homes that has the desired features of integrated AV routing, digital amps, doorbell + video camera integration, intercom + phone integration, music lowering when the phone rings in self contained pkg. that is quick and easy to install + program. Then use MVP's to contol media area equipment like screens + high end components via serial as well as whole house audio and lighting.
In my systems so far I used a number of different makers of equip. I need to now go the autopatch route to subsitute the discontinued AMX audio switcher. Up to now, DMS keypads only offers simple user interface interaction before it gets too complicated or slow.
***** If you do alot of Autopatch, have you integrated any cool running digital amps? I need a solution that can easily install into closed cabinets with forced fan ventilation. This was another Elan plus.
There is not doubt that AMX is positioning itself as a user interface and content delivery company, but what about the all components that run the house that ******** provides its dealers?
I am happy with the AMX integration so far. I only got burned on two items: Thermostats and Intercom. The AMX aprilaire icsnet interface provides no way of simply programming your AC to go on or off on a self timer via the thermostat or AMX easily and AMX provides no module for the DMS intercom function. I have to spend a week of programming to simulate AC climate control programming via a different module right now (normal functionality avail via a 50 dollar Home depot thermostat), and I was instructed to reverse engineer Design Express code to figure out DMS intercom ability. When I first discovered this....I was shocked!
That said, I am looking simplify, find a way to replicate and duplicate custom systems easily.
I just finished my first Elan system in the staging process right now and was impressed with all the functionality that it provides. I fully understand how much work it would take to duplicate its door and phone functions as well as its TP functions like TV in the kitchen and bathroom in AMX world. Now my thinking is what would it take to throw AMX on top of it?
I have not come across a client who is willing to pay a 75K for programing as of yet, and use all pro AV grade hardware - but I have been involved on projects with other companies that have.
I am a big proponent of the KISS moto when in the software engineering mindset. (Keep it simple stupid! - for those of you who dont know)
I have gotten very helpfull tips from people on this forum that has helped in wrapping up system programming and equipment choices.
I have a great curiosity in what components you would subsitute Elan functionality with.......as most CI companies get exposure to different types of equip.
Thanks
Mike.
Autopatch doesn't care what amp you use, it simply switches the audio and adjusts volume levels (depending on model). We normally use analog Amps because most of our equipment is going in fullsize equipment cabinets with proper ventilation and cost is more of a concern than heat. We are currently looking at the SpeakerCraft digital amps for a project that does have a space restriction and based on our experience with the digital amp in the MZC-66, we don't foresee any problems.
This is a plus to me. I think that AMX is taking a much more desirable approach to this. I think of the phrase: Jack of all trades, master of none. Do you really think that C makes or rebrands the best products on the market? I like that AMX is focusing on their core business and letting us dealers integrate the products we find to fit best.
Depending on what level of programming you desire, I think you could use the i!-Scheduler app to accomplish the HVAC timer issues. This works great if the clients have a regular set schedule, but in most cases, we find that there isn't a steady schedule. Some of customer's actually have the HVAC adjust automatically when they initiate the AWAY sequence on their lighting keypad and then adjust back to normal when they turn on a light again (or push the HOME button). As for intercom, we just use the phone system for this task. I'm not sure if intercoms are a big thing in this area, but I don't recall any customers even asking for this recently. We have had a few request that the PAGE out be routed through the whole audio system tho.
The best approach to this, IMHO, is to pick quality lines of products that offer the features you desire and stick with those lines. As an example, we use Integra Receivers. It is the same communication protocol from the low end receiver to the highest end and I can easily replicate code with a minimum of programming changes. This allows us to offer various levels without having to vary our code greatly. Avoid offering 15 different receiver lines, 20 different display brands and 5 different security systems. If we have a customer that wants a different brand (normally because the think it's less expensive), we just explain that the cost to integrate that product is handled on a per hour basis (or whatever your company prefers) and that the estimated time to integrate the product is x hours.
Muting of the A/V system could be done very simply by using a device that generates a contact closure when the phone line rings. (Most security suppliers have these devices) Simply write a routine that mutes all zones when that contact is closed. As for the door phone, the phone system we use supports a doorphone module. We find that it is generally more convenient to use the phone because there are generally more phones in the house than TP's and the use of the phone is second nature. We do change the TP and certain TV's the display the camera at the front door (or which ever door rang the bell) automatically.
As for TV in the Kitchen, are you refering to the VIA!s ability to display a video feed? If this is the case, AMX touchpanels offer far more options in a wired touchpanel. You can create control overlays that allow you to clearly offer control options on the video display. You can also scale the video display to offer preview sized displays on the control screens to show the user what is happening when they control the device.
If you keep the products relatively constant, there shouldn't be a need to rewrite the code for every project and now you can distribute the cost of the initial programming accross multiple projects.
My company was an Elan dealer before becoming an AMX dealer so I am familiar with some of the Elan offerings. I found the system to be a great value as long as you stayed within the boundries of what was commonly accepted by the engineers. Once I was able to utilize AMX in projects, I found the freedom refreshing. AMX is able to accomplish almost any control idea you can imagine and this really let me polish our systems to alleviate some of the confusion our cleints were having. The biggest help in this area was the ability for the touchpanel to indicate which buttons were currently active and we were also able to size the buttons and text to maximize usability. After I got my first taste of real programming in home automation, I couldn't be dragged back to the simplified programming options in Elan. They were just to restrictive and frustrating. (Please keep in mind that I have some computer programming experience in my background tho)
Hope some of my ramblings have helped you.
Jeff
I too am an Elan dealer and a new AMX dealer. In particular I have an S12 installation that I am contemplating controlling with a MVP-8400. It would require the creation of the RS232 interface with Elan's published protocol. Looks like a nice fit once the module is written since the S12 does audio and video switching and can be configured to do component switching. All with feedback and a nice 2-way interface.
I agree with some eariler comments in this thread that while the Elan TPs are nice for a simple/low end solution their promised wireless panel (2 years of promises) will not really give the kind of wow and MVP will.
Being a newbee it would be great to find a few example pieces of code to help me down the path of creating this module.
Any suggestions on where to find some coding examples?
Thanks
Matt