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Getting DVD Info...

TrikinCurtTrikinCurt Posts: 158
in MAX by AMX
Hello! Playing with a new Max HT12 with 3 AVPs attatched. Curious how many out there are working with the MAX? We went through a Kal*** demo before deciding to order MAX. Seems AMX has a ways to go on this product, but the speed of updates right now is comforting!

Anyway, first off, would love to just hear others are using Max. Second, curious on an official response to the poor dealing with of TV based DVDs and other non-movie movies. I have never seen any show up with automatic bookmarks like the docs say, heck, I can't even get a bookmark to play if I record my own?

Would love to see tv shows show up ONCE in the list, for example, Family Guy. Then when viewed get a listing of the tv shows ripped. I simply don't understand going digital and then sticking to the mentality of viewing DVDs seperately anymore? Shouldn't a multi-disc show up once...

Curt
Trikin

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    DHawthorneDHawthorne Posts: 4,584
    I have exactly one MAX job out there presently, but it's a big one (two linked 900 units ... something like 12 terabytes of media storage). But I can't say I've ever sat down with the finished product and viewed anything, aside from what was necessary to test the system. I know my customer has a lot of oddball titles (he's a Bollywood producer, and besides his own Indian versions of such titles of Fight Club, he has a lot of foreign releases of standard American titles - I recall, for example, a version of Matrix that was in English, but the DVD cover was written in Cyrilic). I had to manually enter some of the data (not as much as I might have thought), but I haven't gotten any complaints from him on the viewing end of things, ecept one: multi disc sets all show the same title and cover art, and you just have to "know" which one is the Director's cut, or "making of" version. He's got quite a few TV series on disc, and I haven't heard any gripes about them. He's also not the kind of customer I would expect to keep those gripes to himself; he spent a lot of money on this system, and when something isn't exactly how he wants it, I hear about it.
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    ericmedleyericmedley Posts: 4,177
    TrikinCurt wrote:
    Hello! Playing with a new Max HT12 with 3 AVPs attatched. Curious how many out there are working with the MAX? We went through a Kal*** demo before deciding to order MAX. Seems AMX has a ways to go on this product, but the speed of updates right now is comforting!

    Anyway, first off, would love to just hear others are using Max. Second, curious on an official response to the poor dealing with of TV based DVDs and other non-movie movies. I have never seen any show up with automatic bookmarks like the docs say, heck, I can't even get a bookmark to play if I record my own?

    Would love to see tv shows show up ONCE in the list, for example, Family Guy. Then when viewed get a listing of the tv shows ripped. I simply don't understand going digital and then sticking to the mentality of viewing DVDs seperately anymore? Shouldn't a multi-disc show up once...

    Curt
    Trikin

    We have three systems as well as one in our shop for showing and testing. I've been dealing with the music/movie database debacle (sp?) for some time as I am a music producer in my former life. the blame is not to be laid at AMX's doorstep for the quirkinesses you mentioned. One of my clients has several audio CD collections like: BB Kings anthology, Aerosith, etc... it's annoying in a similar way as DHawthorne's situation. The client has to count which of the 16 BB King - The Anthology discs he want's to play.

    the current database model is a poor excuse for a poorly planned project by people who have little experience with such things. It's admittedly an arduious task and I wouldn't want to take control of it. So, I shouldn't complaing over-much.

    On the AMX front... I wish I could use the AMX User Interface. However, we have a completely different approach to TP design and their whole concept doesn't work with ours. Our panels only have one page and a gazillion pop-up pages. We've tried to wrench their touch panels to our design but get lost in page flips and whatnot that are no longer there.

    Also, we feel the AMX design model is more a 'set top' box idea. (one AVM per TV) We tend to treat all our A/V as distributed. So, the AMX UI gets a little confusing for our clients.

    Here again, these issues are ours and not necessarily AMX's..

    I'll admint that we've been all puzzling over the whole A/V library issue at meetings. We are not sure where this whole thing is heading. Are our customers going to have a $40K system that in 3 years is going to be replaced by a $600 Video iPod?

    Our clients read the magazines and know about the other flavors of A/V libraries. We carry several of them ourselves. It can be kind of hard to make apples-to-apples comparisons. (especially when some of the solutions come in at a $5000-$8000 price point.

    the MAX is certainly on top of the list when considering scale. However, in today's world, I'd not like to put all my eggs in that basket. (here again, thinking iPod)

    I do know we've spent a lot of time on the phone with tech support trying to get it working correctly. Some of it was my fault. Other times it was not.

    those are my thoughts on the MAX. If you don't like those, I have others :)
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    DHawthorneDHawthorne Posts: 4,584
    We try to sell MAX when we can, but for most of our customers, the price point is too high (not that they don't have the money, but that they don't want to spend it that way). As a result, we sell a lot of Escient units instead. For audio-only media, there is no clear advantage to the MAX over the Escient. For video, however, the hard-drive solution is much more flexible ... but only if more than one zone needs to access the program at a time. For a single room media center, it's really hard to justify the cost of a MAX.
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    DHawthorneDHawthorne Posts: 4,584
    Another thought, on the whole database issue: when I installed my big MAX system, the entire thing was wonky, and I was told my bulk-ripper application must only be considered a beta because the database format itself was in a state of flux. Why? Microsoft had bought into to use with their media centers, and instead of working with the existing structures, they demanded the database format be changed to suit their preferences. Rather than annoy the 800lb gorilla, the database got changed, and was in an indeterminate state for a while while the changes were being settled on and implemented.

    And that is the problem with this kind of system. It's subject to modification by parties that have little concern over how inconvenient those changes may be to other users. It's also impractical, due to licensing restrictions and the sheer volume of data, to just create and maintain your own database.
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    ericmedleyericmedley Posts: 4,177
    DHawthorne wrote:
    ...

    And that is the problem with this kind of system. It's subject to modification by parties that have little concern over how inconvenient those changes may be to other users. It's also impractical, due to licensing restrictions and the sheer volume of data, to just create and maintain your own database.

    well said!

    As I said before, we've puzzled over this product for some time. It seems a very high price-point product to put at the whims and whimsy of something like the CD/DVD meta data when you have no control or say-so in the matter.

    I think what Apple and Microsoft have figured out is that the actual technology to deliver the content is not nearly as important as securing the mechanical rights to distribute the content. AMX should secure mechanical rights and sell the MAX pre-loaded with movie/music packages. They can update them remotely and not even worry about the user loading their own stuff in, or tell the user that they can upload but as far as metadata goes, they're on their own.
    (I think they're already looking at this... I can't remember off hand...)

    Other random thoughts.


    We just sent our bulk-loader back. Never got it to work correctly. We ended up loading stuff by hand with a human.

    Another issue about the MAX and products like that no one seems to want to even speak about is that the legallity of ripping movies uncompressed to a server is still not totally resolved. It's not out of the realm of possibility that the whole gig could be shut down due to lawsuits. I wouldn't want to place any bets on this myself. I personally doubt that that hammer will fall. However, here again, the price-point issue... It's a lot of money being bet on something that is totally out of their control.
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    TrikinCurtTrikinCurt Posts: 158
    I believe AMX relying on the database layout of All Movie Guide is a bit sloppy... AMX should have there own database that the machines connect to, this way things can switch on the back-end without blowing up lots of machines in the process. This is what kal** does. It allows them to have there own people input chapters and bookmarks where services like AMG may fail. This also allows them to put TV programs and multi-movie disks into a more logical structure, not tethered to how someone else does it. The point of digital is flexibility, being tied to AMG simply isn't flexible...

    Curt
    Trikin
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    ericmedleyericmedley Posts: 4,177
    TrikinCurt wrote:
    I believe AMX relying on the database layout of All Movie Guide is a bit sloppy... AMX should have there own database that the machines connect to, this way things can switch on the back-end without blowing up lots of machines in the process. This is what kal** does. It allows them to have there own people input chapters and bookmarks where services like AMG may fail. This also allows them to put TV programs and multi-movie disks into a more logical structure, not tethered to how someone else does it. The point of digital is flexibility, being tied to AMG simply isn't flexible...

    Curt
    Trikin

    One of the big issues with what you're saying is the mechanical liscence. it's one thing for you to open up your own database and create a catalog of your own discs and DVDs. It's entirely another to do it for a product that you sell to others. all that meta data is also copyright the publisher. To create the database you're talking about requires that the company go get the mechanical rights to all those products and produce them to the public in a manner approved by the publisher. that lisence fee is not cheap. The few companies who do it for a living have paid dearly for the right to do so. It's a huge turf war. The way its set up now, A company almost cannot procure the publishing rights and then not sell them out to others.

    AMX has created a media managment system that really revolves around the technology and hardware. That's not a good model in that some other trunk-slammer company is just going to come around and build the same thing at a tenth of the cost.

    What Apple has figured out very well is that the technology is almost not a consideration. The technology involved in making an iPod is very low tech when you think about it. What thier product really is is a quick response system to the the impulsive music buyer. They can get online, browse around the store, pick out a few things at a great price point, hit the buy it button and have the songs on the iPod in a quick minute. Selling songs for $0.99 is a good price point. And believe me, at $0.99/song the profit margin is very good.

    AMX should sell big movie/ music packages with their own database and give the MAX's away at cost +10 as a lost leader.

    Sheesh, I'm starting to sound like I'm writing a manefesto... I'll go get some water and relax : )

    You make a some good points Curt. Well said!
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