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Fireplace control?

TrikinCurtTrikinCurt Junior MemberPosts: 158
Anything out there to do gas fireplace conrol beyond a relay? Relay is fine but I would like control over fan, flame height, etc without having to use the proprietary on wall keypads...

Curt

Comments

  • ldeblank@jnv.nl[email protected] Junior Member Posts: 58
    I tried this once.
    It was not the problem that it couldn't work but the manufacturer of the equipment told me that warrenty would stop if try to do so. My customer agrees with me that he wouldn't take the risk and so we cancelled this thing. I need to mention that the control should be done then by relay's (there was a possibillity to do that). If the the fireplace gas equipments support this maybe you can control it by IR so you don't have to modify anything on the equipment.

    Good Luck
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,368
    The one I' played with was ultr-sonic not IR.
  • DHawthorneDHawthorne Old Timer Posts: 4,584
    vining wrote:
    The one I' played with was ultr-sonic not IR.
    Likewise ... and if you think about it, it has to be. When the fireplace is on, it's going to overpower any IR with the heat of the flame. So it's ultrasonic or RF, and I think RF might have trouble getting past an intense heat source too.

    My solution, which I pitched to the customer, but never implemented (because he lost interest in the idea), was to get a second ultrasonic remote, disassemble it, and wire a relay output into the button pad, then install the modified remote in a wall box within range of the fireplace.

    The one thing that made me leary of the whole thing, and sharing this with the customer may have been what decided him against it, was that if anything went wrong, you had the potential of the fireplace turning on unsupervised. Granted, it's hard to imagine a malfunction pulsing a relay, but if a power surge or interuption caused that hard-wired remote to think it saw a button press, I would not want that fire coming on with no one in the room. To me, that's the ultimate automation system nightmare - when automatic events not only happen out-of-turn, but are dangerous. I wouldn't entertain automating a fireplace now, not unless I had some way of being sure it was really safe.
  • TrikinCurtTrikinCurt Junior Member Posts: 158
    Aren't the basic wall switches that come with fireplaces essentially just a relay? How is using an AMX one that different?

    I am often surprised at how little people actually seem to control with all of these control products. For most here is it just AV? I could use a universal remote for that :) (I know, I know, 2 way communication...)

    Curt
    Trikin
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,368
    In function there's none but with a local wall switch you have to physically be in the room to activate or de-activate. When connected to an AMX processor there are all sorts of possibilites to in advertantly turn on and off. Even with rock solid coding there is always a possibilty that it could turn on. It may not be by error or surges or but by a deliberate button push on let's say a MVP which is not with sight of the fire place. Meanwhile the cleaning lady placed a bag of clothes temporarily on the hearth while cleaning and then someone with the MVP pushes the button in another room and poof up in flames.

    The legal implications are enough to make this scenario something to avoid. If it was to be a fixed in place wall Touch Panel it would be safer but still have the problems that Dave eluded to.
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,368
    Curt Trikin wrote:
    I am often surprised at how little people actually seem to control with all of these control products. For most here is it just AV? I could use a universal remote for that (I know, I know, 2 way communication...)

    I would have to agree that for most dealers the simpler the system the more profitable and least headache and "call back" but I would say that most of the forums participants are integrators not AV installers. I'll connect to anything that will let me, sometimes just because I can and at my own expense.

    And despite what I previously said I have connected to a fireplace control but not as you intend. My situation was to facilitate a draft inducing fan that had to be remotely located far from the room where the fire place was. This was on the finish when they noticed the FP did not draft properly which in itself is a code violation so with safety in mind I came up with the attached .jpg as a solution. It still was controlled only via the local hand held remote but used a independant Radio RA relaying system and products I got from Exhausto to control, test for proper draft, pe-purge and post purge. Given the obstacles and the safety issues I feel we made the fireplace better and safer than leaving it alone.
  • ericmedleyericmedley Senior Member - 4000+ posts Posts: 4,177
    TrikinCurt wrote:
    Anything out there to do gas fireplace conrol beyond a relay? Relay is fine but I would like control over fan, flame height, etc without having to use the proprietary on wall keypads...

    Curt

    Not to thread jack, but...

    I tend to never do anything that produces open fire, wild bolts of electricity, moves lots of water freely or can chop off some finger or limb.

    Liability insurance has a way of cancelling your policy if they find out that you were in control of such a thing.

    We just typically say no...
  • Spire_JeffSpire_Jeff Formerly Caffeinated Programmer Posts: 1,917
    Since this thread was recently referenced in a post, I decided to give it a read. To this point, the only fireplace controls I have dealt with only allow relay type control. When dealing with fireplaces, I normally only allow them to be turned on from within the room where they are. This generally means only Lutron or AMX keypads and in-wall touch panels. I then give the ability to turn the fireplace off from anywhere.

    One thing to keep in mind is that most of the units I've dealt with use extremely small amperage and can be difficult to trigger with a long wire run between the AMX processor and the fireplace. This is easily overcome with a 12v relay from (INSERT FAVORITE ELECTRONICS SUPPLY STORE).

    Jeff
  • ldeblank@jnv.nl[email protected] Junior Member Posts: 58
    Fireplace control

    At this moment i'm programming a fireplace with Kal-fire Biko control.
    It's a control interface who needs to 0-10v dc for flame control
    and a relay for off and on.
    I don't see i work at this time but that will be in a short while.
    I'll keep you informed.
  • Joe HebertJoe Hebert Junior Member Posts: 2,159
    Some things are better left untouched. For me, fire is one if them.
  • ThorleifurThorleifur Junior Member Posts: 58
    A customer asked us for a gas-fireplace that he could turn on "like in the movies".
    But as we in Iceland don?t use fireplaces that much and we have almost no dealers here I ask: Are there any brands out there with ON/OFF and flame control and controllable via AMX? And has someone implemented this with success?
    This is a penthouse in a new beautiful 18 story building.. Hate too burn it down!
  • TrikinCurtTrikinCurt Junior Member Posts: 158
    On/off is easy, it is flame control that may be a trick. On/off is just a relay, whether controlled via amx or a wallswitch, that is all it is.

    Curt
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