"Smart Transfer" not so smart?

jjames

Okay, so to say the least - I am EXTREMELY p***ed off right now. What's the deal with the whole "Smart" Transfer thing? I am currently transfering a file where I changed three buttons . . . THREE BUTTONS . . . and it's sending the whole dang file. I was told by tech support that it possibly creates a "checksum" or "date" of transfer and after so long, it says "I'm gonna send a new panel no matter what."

Guess what? That's the BIGGEST load of crap I have ever heard. It shouldn't matter if I send a panel 2 years ago, or 2 minutes ago; if I'm only changing three buttons, it should only update three buttons, not the entire file.

We're transfering three files, and transfering remotely, so my upload speed isn't the fastest. It's taking 20 minutes per file. That's an HOUR of my WASTED time and not to mention the people at the job site waiting for this to finish so they can check it out. It doesn't matter if I send through TPD4 or NS2. This is a type of problem that should never exist. It's almost as blatanly STUPID as KeypadBuilder not having an "edit" menu.

NOTE: This is all my opinion, and has nothing to do with my company or the people associated with my employer.

mpullin

If it decides when to send the whole panel based on date, can you fool it by changing the date on the master?

DHawthorne

mpullin wrote:

If it decides when to send the whole panel based on date, can you fool it by changing the date on the master?

No, it downloads a manifest file from the panel, and compares the component files in TPD4 to the manifest, then loads the files that changed. I can't say for certain what it uses for the compare, but it's likely a combination of the time/date stamp and file size. You don't have any access to those component files, nor can you edit the manifest (that I am aware of).

More than likely what happened here was that the manifest was corrupted, or something got scrambled when it was downloaded, so TPD4 thought all the files changed. Which isn't really a bad default behavior in such cases.

I do know that even when all goes well, it sometimes downloads files you wouldn't think needed it - like font files and some graphics. But the times it downloads the entire panel when "smart transfer" was selected are rare enough that I have never seen it. I would chalk this one up to a bad connection, or maybe just bad luck. I have updated single pages on a file months away from the original, and only have it transfer a half dozen files. So whoever in tech support made that comment was grasping for straws. This in not standard behavior. However, I would say it's not unexpected with a long distance connection. I have completely scrambled panels with bad connections. I would definitely lay money on the manifest getting corrupted in transit here.

jjames

Still peeved

Here's what I'm starting to figure: I failed to mention that these files were transfered to a new computer and I'm uploading from that. It seems that all these panels that I haven't sent before on this computer are being fully loaded. I'm not certain of this, but that's what appears to be happening. This is still a pain in the butt and has wasted an enormous amount of time.

DHawthorne

jjames wrote:

Here's what I'm starting to figure: I failed to mention that these files were transfered to a new computer and I'm uploading from that. It seems that all these panels that I haven't sent before on this computer are being fully loaded. I'm not certain of this, but that's what appears to be happening. This is still a pain in the butt and has wasted an enormous amount of time.

Ah, that might have something to do with it - last time I changed computers was at least two years ago. It's possible there is enough of a difference to flag them as changed - though I can't imagine on what criteria, unless the cluster size on your drive figures in.

jjames

Perhaps an experiment worth trying would be to have a couple of people send a slightly different file to a touch panel. This would eleminate or satisfy the theory of different computers sending a slightly modified file would send an entirely new file.

[Deleted User]

Smart tranfer in TPD4 is different than Studio in the way it handles fonts. I have been using Studio for all my remote transfers with great success. The downloads are usually very short.

If you go back and forward between Studio and TPD4 when downloading a panel file you always get a much longer load time. This is due to all the fonts being sent each time you change applications. Tech support explained this to me one time and it has something to do with TPD saved file fonts verses the PC displayed fonts.

Anyway, stick with one application to load files for best results. I like Studio because I can queue the files and continue working.

jjames

B_Clements wrote:

Anyway, stick with one application to load files for best results. I like Studio because I can queue the files and continue working.

I agree - I've been transfering through Studio for a while now. I transfered through TPD4 today just to see if there was a difference - and needless to say, they were both full panel transfers.

yuri

jjames wrote:

I agree - I've been transfering through Studio for a while now. I transfered through TPD4 today just to see if there was a difference - and needless to say, they were both full panel transfers.

i dont get it. full panel transfers, like, send everything? Also the fonts? i have never ever seen that with smart transfer enabled.
i always do a clean transfer, to wipe out the demo thats on the panel, and then i use Smart Transfer which only sends the few files that are modified. It does indeed send more than 1 file, but i think thats obvious...

Daniel Tehan

There was a time about a year ago or maybe more, can't remember for sure that all of my panels did full transfers the first time I came back to them, even if only a couple of months old. It bugged me till I realized that about the same time as it started happening I had uploaded a new version of TPD4. It may be that the graphical encoding or something changed within the last two years and revisions of studio.

Currently I expect a full transfer when I first go back to a site because I put revision numbers on all of my files, and that seems to be enough of a change to trigger the Smart/Full transfer switch.

jjames

Daniel,

I spoke with someone about this and they had mentioned that even renaming it IS enough to do a full transfer. This is in my opinion, a bug / feature that needs to be fixed.

yuri

TPD4 keeps a temp file somewhere with all your touchpanel files.
When i look in my "C:\Program Files\AMX Control Disc\TPDesign4" i see all of the panels i ever programmed (well, at least alot )
When i deleted them and tried to upload a panel with smart transfer enabled, it did a complete transfer, including fonts etc.
Bummer...

Spire_Jeff

I would rather TPD4 error on the side of caution. It may mean that I have to wait a little longer, but I like knowing that the touchpanel files I am working on are definately going to be on the panel. (This still doesn't fix me working on the wrong file, but I can't expect a program to fix me ) I understand the frustration, believe me, but I find unexpected results more frustrating.

Jeff

jjames

True, but imagine how much money is lost when I have to wait an hour and a half to transfer 3 or 4 panels from the office. Not only is it wasting my time, but the people standing around at the location waiting for it to finish. But I clearly understand your point.

Spire_Jeff

Could you send the touch panel file to somebody onsite and have them send it to the touch panels?

As far as money lost, the same could be applied to an unhappy client when the touch panel goes all flakey and the time spent troubleshooting a problem caused by improper touch panel transfers. I would view it not as wasted time, but time necessary to do the job properly (given the current constraints of the software and hardware).

Jeff

DHawthorne

I hold my breath whenever I have to load a full panel remotely, and I try to plan it so that if it goes wrong I can run out to the site to fix it. But that can be difficult if the site is two states away (not unusual for me to have CT clients, and I am based in NJ). But so many times, there is nothing you can do about a flaky connection over miles (often hundreds) of Internet feeds.

rynando

Regardless of the distance or the transfer method the data should get to the panel in one piece however, as everyone knows this isn't always the case.

People upload and download huge files off the internet every day. I don't understand why a panel based on linux can't leverage some of the same technology that makes sure large transfers in less than ideal conditions go smoothly. I hate having to use USB on WIFI panels or risk incomplete transfers. AMX really needs to change the way files are moved back and forth.

Ryan

yuri

i'm guessing the problem is not the data being moved, but the fact that the data is handled with immediatly.
I have seen on that other system that you send a compressed package to your panel (fast) and then the panel goes on extracting content (slow) but you dont need to be connected by then... It's just a different method

vining

rynando wrote:
I hate having to use USB on WIFI panels or risk incomplete transfers. AMX really needs to change the way files are moved back and forth.

I've only had to resort to the USB connection once and every other time it's been WI-FI. I should hard connect to a LAN port but I don't. I know with TCP connection we shouldn't have any dropped packets, well we can drop packets but replacement are sent and arranged in their proper order but I do hold my breath when transferring from a distance and only do that when I need to. So far I haven't had to run to the job to correct a bad file transfer lock up and haven't had a negative issue what so ever. Knock on wood!