Panasonic Multi Cell Phones

vining

Does any one know what the actual operating frequency range of the Panasonic Multi Cell phones is? I want to know the specific freak range in the 2.4 GHZ band.

Panasonic no longer produces the 900 MHZ phone system phones which means I'll have to start using the 2.4 GHZ multi cell which are infinitely a better cordelss system and from all I've heard doesn't present an interferance problem with wi-fi networks. I not sure how true that is so I've always refrained from their use and opted for the tried and true 900 mhz.

I assume the reason the muli cell cordless don't interfere is because they operate above 2.473 MHZ which is upper bandwidth freak of wi-fi channel 11 (US highest channel). Now we have to be concerned w/ ZigBee allocations which ideally would operate above wi-fi channel 11 on ZigBee channels 25 or 26. Now if the Panasonic operates it this range we'll probably have issues. We could use ZigBee channels 15 & 20 if and only if we subscibe to the AMX 1-6-11 wi-fi philosophy, I don't. I prefer the 1-4-8-11 Cisco approach and then shift repeating channels by 1 because RF doesn't follow those neat little cirlces than are illustrated on the site survey patterns. So for me use of ZigBee channels in the wi-fi range trying to spot a hole in the frequencies isn't practical.

So if anyone knows the freaks of the Panasonic multi cells I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know so I can make a logical attemp of cramming all this sh t into this 100 mhz bandwitdh of the 2.4 GHZ range.

cma

Don't know the frequency, but have been using them side by side with AMX and wifi networks ever since they have come out and I have never had any kind of interference issues with them. I do try to keep as much distance as possible between all of my antenna/base station installations.

DHawthorne

I'm in the same boat as cma - used them with no interference, but no idea really what the bandwidth is. I was terrified the first one we put in would cause all manner of issues on a system that already had wi-fi difficulties, but it went in without a hitch and caused no trouble at all, and we have a good dozen cell bases on that job, along with a half dozen or so WAP's.

GSLogic

I have the Panasonic Phone system 848 and it uses wireless phones that communicate over its own wireless wap. I've no problems at all with the AMX communication but I do have a problem when I walk past a particulate microwave when it is on, the phone crackles. I can walk by the other microwave with no problem, I think its probably leaking ... that would explain a lot of what's going on around here.

vining

If you read my orignal post I'm not too concerned with wi-fi cuz from every reference I've ever found there has been no instance of interference. My concern is ZigBee which "should" operate above the US wi-fi spectrum (above channel 11) and my fear is that's where the PANA phones operate.

See original post.

vining

OK, I found the operating frequency of the PANA 7690 multi cell phone. It was in the phones user manual under "Medical" section of additional information. JPEG excerpt below.

They operate from 2401 - 2480 MHZ @ 0.40 watts which is the same freak range as wi-fi. So it's likely they do interfere with wi-fi but it's just one of those things that's hard to notice. Once I actually install a network and this phone system in the same job I'll have to run some test to see what sort of negative interference if any there is. If I purposely force a confrontation between the two systems something is bound to hiccup.

If no one has noticed any ill effect yet it probably won't be that bad. I'll likely have to have the phone on top of the WAP or MVP while placing call with Netstumbler or WI-SPY running in the background to see anything.

Fortunately the Panasonic operating frequency shouldn't cause any interference w/ ZigBee when using ZigBee on channel 25 or 26 which was my real concern. Using ZigBee on the lower channels will be a crap shoot not only with the phones but with the wi-fi as well unless you do the wi-fi 1-6-11 and the ZigBee 15 or 20. Then wi-fi won't be an issue but the phones might be.

Spire_Jeff

I don't remember which model the system was, but I had a terrible time with the panasonic wireless phone system. It's not the PBX version, it's the one with one base station and up to 8 wireless handsets. It destroyed the wireless network in the house. I had to add a couple of APs throughout the house to get even halfway decent network coverage. Of course this was a few years ago, and we haven't installed another one since.

At the time, I managed to talk with someone in tech support at Panasonic trying to find out what frequency the phones use, and my answer was: "All of them". I tried to find out if it jumped frequencies based on interference or some other algorithm, but all he would tell me is "All of Them". We also had 8 handsets installed, so if they used a different channel for each phone, 8 of the channels would have possibly been in use.

Now that I think about it, I'd love to take my Wi-Spy unit back there and see what's really happening

Jeff

flcusat

vining wrote:

OK, I found the operating frequency of the PANA 7690 multi cell phone. It was in the phones user manual under "Medical" section of additional information. JPEG excerpt below.

They operate from 2401 - 2480 MHZ @ 0.40 watts which is the same freak range as wi-fi. So it's likely they do interfere with wi-fi but it's just one of those things that's hard to notice. Once I actually install a network and this phone system in the same job I'll have to run some test to see what sort of negative interference if any there is. If I purposely force a confrontation between the two systems something is bound to hiccup.

If no one has noticed any ill effect yet it probably won't be that bad. I'll likely have to have the phone on top of the WAP or MVP while placing call with Netstumbler or WI-SPY running in the background to see anything.

Fortunately the Panasonic operating frequency shouldn't cause any interference w/ ZigBee when using ZigBee on channel 25 or 26 which was my real concern. Using ZigBee on the lower channels will be a crap shoot not only with the phones but with the wi-fi as well unless you do the wi-fi 1-6-11 and the ZigBee 15 or 20. Then wi-fi won't be an issue but the phones might be.

Vining: Do you have an update on this situation with the new Panasonic phones, wi-fi and zigbee possible interference? I'm about to quote a job where all of them are going to be involve and I'm just wondering what kind of problems I might encounter.

vining

flcusat wrote:

Do you have an update on this situation with the new Panasonic phones, wi-fi and zigbee possible interference?

There was a post a few month ago that clearly indicated interferace between the PANA multi-cell phone and the MVP's. They did a study and logged panels going offline with multi-cells phones in place and with out and another w/o the cell stations either and I think the results were some thing like; will the PANA system in place panels dropped of say 100 times in a week. With out the phones they dropped off about ten times in the same time period and with out the cell stations it dropped to only a couple of times in a week.

ZigBee and WiFi should be fine if you only use ZigBee channels 25 or 26 and create a single mesh network as ZigBee 25/26 is above the US WiFi allowed range.

I first locate my acces points and try to get them as close to the area where the MVP will reside and be used most of the time. I've had issues in the past where I would place access points where they made sense in an overall scheme but later found that in the prime area for using the MVP TP I created a Bermuda Triangle of coverage where three APs were at almost identicall signal strenghts to the panel and the panel would constantly drop offline and switch from one to another, not good. Obviously a firmware problem in the MVPs so I moved one into the same room to give the TP and obvious choice.

Then I would locate my ZibGee gateway and repeaters. I don't know exactly how these handle traffic but there range is probably three times that of an AP. Try to keep everything as far apart as possible (AP,GateWays, Cell Station) and cross your fingers.

flcusat

I'm just wondering if using regular wireless phones like the KX-TD7896 will mitigate the problem even when it works in 2.4MHz. The drawback is that it won't have the range of the phone using the cell stations but at least the interference to the wi-fi channels could be some how controlled.

flcusat

My best friend, all he does is Panasonic Digital Phone Systems. I called him yesterday afternoon, and he confirmed that the cell stations operate randomly from channel six to eleven and that there is not way to select a channel for the station to work.
I'm more confused now. I just check my training book for the KX-TDA system and in the Site Survey precautions for the sell stations states:

When installing a Multi-Cell Wireless application in a site that is using an 802.11b Wireless Local Area Network(WLAN), the Cell Stations should be located as far apart as possible from the WLAN Access Points (AP). This is done to avoid reducing the throughput of WLAN.
Also, it is recommended that the Access Points utilize channel 9 when possible.
The separation distance between Cell Stations should always be a minimum of 15 to 40 meters.

I'm going to need to call my friend again this morning to see what he saids about this because when I asked him about it yesterday he told me that he was 100% sure that the CS were working from 6 to 11.
If we go by the rules of 5 channel separation between access points to avoid interference between them, we could assume that the cell stations are working around channel 4.

Spire_Jeff

If you would like to see how most of the cordless phones out there work, visit metageek.net and just download their free software (it's pretty much useless without the wi-spy device, but let's you view prerecorded sessions). They have a download that illustrates cordless phone use fairly well.

Here is a link to the image they have of the recording. http://www.metageek.net/Support/Docs/Recordings/Cordless_Phone__Wi_Spy_2_4x_/

In the image, you can clearly see how the phone transmission hops around.

Jeff

ericmedley

vining wrote:

If you read my orignal post I'm not too concerned with wi-fi cuz from every reference I've ever found there has been no instance of interference. My concern is ZigBee which "should" operate above the US wi-fi spectrum (above channel 11) and my fear is that's where the PANA phones operate.

See original post.

We've had all kinds of trouble with Panasonic phones and WiFi. This was mentioned in another post.

[Deleted User]

New technogy - DECT

From August 2007 Consumer Reports

One of the most promising developments is the arrival of phones that operate in a different frequency band than WiFi networks, Bluetooth, baby monitors, and other wireless devices. Skirting the congested 2.4- and 5.8-gigahertz (GHz) bands, these phones use the 1.9-GHz band, which is reserved for voice applications. The goal is to eliminate interference with other devices--and our tests showed it did exactly that. The new technology, called Digital Enhanced Cordless Telecommunications (DECT, sometimes called DECT 6.0), also deliver much longer talk time than we've seen before. DECT phones from Philips, Panasonic, GE, and VTech are already on the market. You're likely to see more of these phones, possibly at lower prices, in coming months. Even phones in the heavily trafficked 2.4-GHz band have tackled some of the interference problem. In our tests, "wireless-network-friendly phones," from AT&T minimized or eliminated interference by avoiding portions of the band used by WiFi networks (though they still may cause interference to other wireless products).