Retrieval

Clingpeach

Can someone tell me how to extract my code from the netlinx to my desktop as an .axs file using Netstudio 2

Thomas Hayes

1- Goto the " master comm. setting" and select "netlinx master".
2- Open "file transfer" and select "receive".
3- Select the type of file to upload and the location to store it.
4- Open "tools" and select file extraction and select "SRC" and the location and name of the file you uploaded.
You can also check in the Help section of studio 2.

DHawthorne

This assumes, of cource, it was compiled with source in the first place, which is not the default.

Thomas Hayes

Yes, that is true. I took for granted that it was.

Clingpeach

And if it wasnt how do I get it.

vincen

Originally posted by Clingpeach
And if it wasnt how do I get it.

No way, if the source is not downloaded on the master, you have no way to "reinvent" the source from the compiled code

Vinc

Thomas Hayes

The only 2 reasons that I know or have heard as NOT to download the 'source file' was to speed up transfer time to troubleshoot(older axcent III according to another programmer friend of mine.) or to prevent others from stealing your program. I tried a couple of things here but it was a no go. Maybe some one at AMX knows a secret backdoor way?

Clingpeach

So what you are saying is that should something happen to my programmer and he disappears off the face off the earth and after I have spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on programming there is no one who can retrieve the program.

Thomas Hayes

It depends if he downloads with the 'build with source' turned on. If he isn't doing it now maybe you should ask him why. He can still have a password if he's does not want others to see his programming. I won't even bother with legal issuses of who owns the program after it is paid for, that a whole different load of &*^%*&^.

vincen

Just a word about the password protection on source file with NetLinx systems, it's not a 100% efficient solution for someone who knows computer stuffs. In fact the SRC file downloaded by NSX on the master is just a zip file of all axs files of the project.

If you put a password in option of NSX, the password will be used to zip the files, but software able to crack pass in zip are very easy to find on Internet :-D

Vinc

DHawthorne

I don't particularly like to leave source code on the Master. While it's under develeopment I might, but after release (read: no longer under contract) there is nothing stopping the customer from hiring someone else to take over the project and downloading your code. A copyright notice in the source means little in these cases. If they insist on dumping you, make them pay for a re-write . With little one-room theaters that anyone could crank out in a few hours, I don't particularly worry, but some NetLinx projects just represent too much work, and I don't want to just hand it to a prospective competitor.

What I do though, is make several backups. Right now, I have a desktop machine and a laptop, and I synchronize all my project files between them at least twice daily when I am in the office. Periodically, I sync them again on a machine at home. For the best ease in doing this, I keep an identical Documents folder tree on all these machines, and override all program preferences that want to make their own project save folders: it all goes into my Documents tree somewhere. At any point in time, a catastrophic failure of any of my machines would at th most lose me a day's work. In addition to that, I have a tape backup running daily on my desktop machine. Periodically, especially when a project is complete, I export the

If your programmer works for you as an employee (and in some cases as a subcontractor), it's work for hire, and legally the code belongs to you. I would insist he keeps redundant backups, and that he does them regularly, and that they are done somewhere that you have access to them. Anything can happen, machines blow up, automotve accidents, fires, etc.; you have to protect the work if you don't want to repeat it for free.

jeffaco

This is a philosophical issue. But, another way of looking at this:

I pay you to write some automation system code for me. You deliver said code, I deliver the cash, transaction completed. From my point of view, I own that code (I did, after all, pay you for it). If I choose to go somewhere else to have that code modified, that's my right as a customer; the code is mine since I paid for it. Thus, as a provider, the onus remains on you to provide me with sufficiently good service where I have no need to go elsewhere.

If I go to work (as a programmer) for Microsoft or IBM or HP or any other employer, they pay me to write the code, and they own said code, entirely. They're not paying me for a license to the code, they're paying me for the code.

In my case, it was a moot point: I wanted the source code and made it clear that I wanted the source code, up front. Final payment was contingent on that. Naturally, I had the source code.

In the end, I rewrote most or all of it, but that's orthogonal to this discussion.

If ClingPeach didn't work that out up front, and if the source code wasn't downloaded to the automation system, then she'll need to go back to her contractor and work something out for the source bits - it's as simple as that.

Thomas Hayes

I was afraid this would open a whole can of worms. I guess there is no correct answer, depends on which side you are on. I just got off the phone with a contractor who has some code I would like to buy and interface with my present code. He's willing but refuses to give me his source code BUT wants to see my code to interface the two. I have several hours(weeks) into this code and don't really want to share it if he's not willing to. I don't have any problems paying for code but when I buy it I want to own it. Its not like an OS were you are only really buying the right to use it and don't own it. Bottom line is to each their own point of view and I respect that. Clingpeach, if the guy works for you as an employee than demand he at least gives you a copy(he can still have one for himself for future use.)

Thomas Hayes

I was thinking more about the rights of the programmer to protect their code that they work hard to develop while driving home(nice 60 mile drive) and what about if the programmer used the security features in the netlinx to block access to the box. If you remove the rights to all the ports than people cannot get your code. I know the first thing I do with every new box is change the default passwords and remove the rights. Just a thought to stir pot. Sorry Clingpeach that were not helping you out more.

Clingpeach

Part of the deal I have with my programmer, who I adore, is that upon completion of at least once monthly additions He sends me a totaly updated axs file with all the programming He has just done some extra stuff and is now on vacation. I was merely trying to ge the update myself.
I WOULD NEVER DO IT ANY OTHER WAY I would never pay for something and not get what I pay for. I have been an end user of AMX for many many years and have dealt with a few wierd programmers who would not give me the program and subsequently have never hired them

DHawthorne

Originally posted by Thomas Hayes
I was afraid this would open a whole can of worms. I guess there is no correct answer, depends on which side you are on. I just got off the phone with a contractor who has some code I would like to buy and interface with my present code. He's willing but refuses to give me his source code BUT wants to see my code to interface the two. I have several hours(weeks) into this code and don't really want to share it if he's not willing to. I don't have any problems paying for code but when I buy it I want to own it. Its not like an OS were you are only really buying the right to use it and don't own it. Bottom line is to each their own point of view and I respect that. Clingpeach, if the guy works for you as an employee than demand he at least gives you a copy(he can still have one for himself for future use.)

Too late, the worms are out of the can

But there is a correct answer as far as the law is concerned. As far as the programmer / company relationship is concerned, if he is an employee the code belongs to the company. If he was hired as a consultant, unless specific terms were laid out at the time the contract was signed stating otherwise, the code belongs to the programmer. The key here is what kind of terms were agreed upon, and verbal contracts are binding (though hard to prove if it comes to litigation). Long-term contracts are the same as employees under most circumstances, but I am muddy on the details there, so I won't comment on it.

As far as the end user is concerned, this is another issue altogether, and it depends on your sales agreement. Most contracts don't specify a thing, and in those cases, I would think the law would assume the code is part of the purchased package, so now it belongs to the customer. I think it is hugely important to specify in a sale that they are only licensing the code. In the vast majority of cases, it's so custom it hardly matters, but when more and more re-useable modules come into use, then it can become a big issue. If I spend a month developing a module that I could make revenue reselling, it would be silly to sell it outright to my end user. Technically, by copyright law, you can't even modify it myself after that - it belongs to the customer. Likewise, if I tick off a customer so much they want someone else to come in and take the job over, I'm not really so concerned about them having the code that runs their theater - but I don't really want my competitor having my re-usable modules for free. My bad for losing the customer...but no point pouring salt in the wound by giving another guy my work.

Spire_Jeff

Here's a thought. AMX provides a great way to handle this(In some situations). If you have some code that you want protected, make it a module. I understand that this isn't always practical, but if you have something that is really nice, there are ways to make a module somewhat secure against implementation on a different master.

Another way you could protect your code would be to remove all comments from your code. Have you ever tried to read through thousands of lines of code without any comments? if you wanted to be really bad technically, you could even get rid of includes and make it all one big file without comments. This still provides the code, but without any easy way for someone to dicipher it. Personally, I think that any programming that is done specifically for a client is theirs such as I programmed this button to turn on the fireplace, the pool and the air conditioner. The code that intiates those items should be available. (what happens if I die, the customer doesn't want to use someone else, they HAVE to) the actual code the handles talking to the fireplace, the pool and the air conditioner are a different story. In most case even I won't have access to this code because AMX wrote the module. On the chance that I did write the module, I might be inclined to limit the access to that module in some way depending on the time involved.

Just my imediate thoughts on the matter.

Clingpeach

Thanks for all your responses.
Im a foreigner living in the USA. Fortunately my programmer is also a foreigner who lives in my country of birth. Thats not the way they do business down there and I have a great working relationship with him.

DHawthorne

Originally posted by Clingpeach
Thanks for all your responses.
Im a foreigner living in the USA. Fortunately my programmer is also a foreigner who lives in my country of birth. Thats not the way they do business down there and I have a great working relationship with him.

We got sidetracked from your original post ...but it would seem in your case you need only remind him to turn the "compile with source" option on.