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IR Doubling Issues

PMWVideoPMWVideo Posts: 2
in AMX Hardware
THE ISSUE:

The programmed-channel-presets are doubling. For example, pressing the HBO icon preset will call the numbers: 5-5-0-0-1-1 (not the desired 5-0-1).

SYSTEM:

NXD-CV10 touch panel.
CBTP 10 Back Box.
NI4000 Processor.
NXC REL 10 relay card.
The IR is calling a Direct TV box (unit H20).


BACKGROUND:

The issue emerged after a year of working fine.

When using the keypad to manually dial a channel there is NO doubling issue.

We have reset the Controller.

We have replaced the touch panel.

We have troubleshot the code by limiting CTOF AND CTON times for our SEND_COMMAND function.

QUESTION:

Does anyone have any ideas?
«1

Comments

  • jjamesjjames Posts: 2,908
    This is going to sound absurd - BUT - we ran into this problem a few weeks ago. You'll probably have to wind up moving the IR bug on the box. Our system was still new, but it the IR had been working just fine for several weeks. We had to eventually load up about 90% of the IR windows with black tape on our H20. We too also messed with the CTON / CTOF. The best we can configure is that there was some kind of "firmware" update, and the IR is super sensitive now.

    You could also putting in a 1k resistor in series with the flasher. Either way, try to limit the amount of IR going to the box from the flasher. I've been using CTON-2 and CTOF-3 and it's worked fine.

    Good luck!
  • Danny CampbellDanny Campbell Posts: 311
    I'm having the same problem with 11 of the H20 units. All after DirecTV updated the software one night. They are naturally blaming the AMX code for sending double pulses, but like you, this had been running for a year. The on-site tech replaced one of the units with a spare (that had not been automatically upgraded) and it worked fine.
  • AvophileAvophile Posts: 70
    Audioplex makes some emitter eyes that can be useful in these situations:

    http://www.audioplex.com/LOWEIRBUG.htm

    http://www.audioplex.com/IRBugadjustable.htm
  • NMarkRobertsNMarkRoberts Posts: 455
    A long shot - do you have multiple units in the same rack or room? Are you flashing them both? Is the IR leaking from one to the other?
  • viningvining Posts: 4,368
    You may have to adjust your pulse time SET_PULSE_TIME on the IR device port to something lower than the default.
  • alexanboalexanbo Posts: 282
    SET_PULSE_TIME is a global setting, as far as I know you can't set it per individual port.
    The CTON,CTOF is port specific and lets you adjust the time between pulses as well as the length of the pulse.

    It seems like the problem is related to the ir timing as I'm asuming you're using XCH commands to send presets. Are you using the SP command to send the indivual digits? If you are the problem is a bit weird because the SP and XCH commands both use the CTON/CTOF settings.

    Also one thing that trips me up when setting CTON/CTOF is to make sure the time is sent as an integer rather then ASCII, ie "CTON',3" I've screwed that up once or twice.
  • jjamesjjames Posts: 2,908
    You can change those settings all you want, but in this situation - I would be willing to bet that it was some kind of update from DirecTV. One box went one day, we fiddled around with it and finally got it working by covering about 95% of the IR reciever on the box. The three other boxes worked fine that one day. The next day we went in, it was the same problem.

    If it's worked fine for the past year, and nothing has changed in code whatsoever - you can't say it's something with AMX. So, the solution: electrical tape the IR receiver window or get one of those IR emitters from Audioplex.
  • dthorsondthorson Posts: 103
    So if it's a Dish problem whats the best fix?

    I'm going through the same thing with a Direct TV H10 receiver.
    It worked great the past year than all of a sudden it's double presets.

    I tried tweaking the Pulse_Time, which seemed to fix it, than a few days later the problem is back.

    They did mention 2 of the units were recently replaced, I'm not sure with what. They also mentioned about the downloading updates. So are we thinking that the firmware upgrade some how made the IR more sensitive?
  • jjamesjjames Posts: 2,908
    To be honest - that's the conclusion *we* came to. Like I said in the previous posts - we covered up about 95% of the IR window on the satellite box, and it seemed to work after that. That was our situation though - I just find it odd it working for a long time, then all of a sudden it doesn't. Sounds like an update to me.
  • ClingpeachClingpeach Posts: 156
    If you go the direct tv message boards everyone seems to be having this problem. Its not an AMX problem.
  • dthorsondthorson Posts: 103
    Can you post the web address of those message boards?
  • ClingpeachClingpeach Posts: 156
    i dont know how to post the link..let me try
    http://www.highdefforum.com/search.php?searchid=931490
  • dthorsondthorson Posts: 103
    Is there a Title of the post that I can search for? Or the actual link to the post like this one:
    http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=44113


    That url with the searchid doesn't get me there :(
  • ClingpeachClingpeach Posts: 156
    http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=51341&highlight=channel+changing

    Heres one I know there are a few posts concerning this..Let me know if this helps
  • dthorsondthorson Posts: 103
    Got it, thanks.

    [heres the link untruncated]
    [link]http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=51341&highlight=channel+changing[link]
  • glr-ftiglr-fti Posts: 286
    I concur that the problem is the latest software upgrade from Directv. If you are using the RS232 interface that was hosed as well. One day everything works just fine and then the auto update happens and the problems begin. There are different problems depending on the age of the unit as well. From an RS232 standpoint Directv has acknowledged a problem but has not fixed it. I would assume that the issue is similar for the IR. I had probelems with the RS232 and then switched over to IR and then received the double blast which did not occur previously.
  • dthorsondthorson Posts: 103
    I just got another call today where this is happening at another site.
    I had the tech try the trick with the tape to cover the receiver, but no dice.

    Are we just supposed to wait around for Direct Tv to fix the problem or is there any chance we can push them to get on it.
  • ClingpeachClingpeach Posts: 156
    David, have you ever tried to call direct tv tech support. The whole thing is an extremely painful experience. Not sure they have a clue what they are doing most of the time
  • dthorsondthorson Posts: 103
    I was hoping to avoid that. I'm sure they would just blame the AMX anyway.

    I'm thinking I may try to get a hold of a local rep that may be more knowledgeable.
  • rfmoylerfmoyle Posts: 12
    Replaced an older DirecTV receiver with an H20 at a customers recently. This was a rack controlled with a Niles Intellicontrol. It had the number doubling symptom. We ended up making a standoff for the emitter using the center conductor from a scrap of RG6. Didn't work 100%, still have the occasional doubleup, but usable.
  • ClingpeachClingpeach Posts: 156
    Another thought.
    I have made my own .irl files and recently had my programmer load the stock amx irl file for the receivers. Ive had him load them one by one. The only one that works properly is the one I have made myself. Im thinking of mapping my own one to the stock amx irl file.
  • ClingpeachClingpeach Posts: 156
    Also Dave I saw your post on the highdef forum. Im not sure how many people on that forum are familiar with AMX and their workings. Its a small percentage I bet. Hopefully you will get some feedback.
  • PMWVideoPMWVideo Posts: 2
    Thanks...

    ...for all of your input. After reading your suggestions and talking with AMX I am leaning toward the firmware upgrade theory as well. So, we are going to try taping the Direct TV units and/or new low power IR emitters.
  • Jeff BJeff B Posts: 37
    Just a thought. I never use the PULSE command if I don't have to. I always use the TO command. This more closely mimics the use of the unit supplied remote. 
    BUTTON_EVENT[dvTP_Satellite,0]
    {
    PUSH:
        {
        TO[BUTTON.INPUT]
        TO[dvSatellite,BUTTON.INPUT.CHANNEL]
        }
    }

    Not to say this will fix the problem, but this did fix a similar problem I had several years ago, were limiting CTOF,CTON and pulse times did not.

    JB
  • jjamesjjames Posts: 2,908
    Jeff B wrote:
    Just a thought. I never use the PULSE command if I don't have to. I always use the TO command. This more closely mimics the use of the unit supplied remote.
    I try to say things only once, so . . . here's a redirect: http://www.amxforums.com/showthread.php?t=3285

    On a side note, when I say "covering up the IR window", I do mean to cover up the window (about 95%) and then place the emitter over the tape with either more tape silicone.
  • ColinColin Posts: 51
    Thats what I use Release for:
    alexanbo wrote:
    SET_PULSE_TIME is a global setting, as far as I know you can't set it per individual port.
    The CTON,CTOF is port specific and lets you adjust the time between pulses as well as the length of the pulse.

    It seems like the problem is related to the ir timing as I'm asuming you're using XCH commands to send presets. Are you using the SP command to send the indivual digits? If you are the problem is a bit weird because the SP and XCH commands both use the CTON/CTOF settings.

    Also one thing that trips me up when setting CTON/CTOF is to make sure the time is sent as an integer rather then ASCII, ie "CTON',3" I've screwed that up once or twice.


    If you use Set_Pulse Time(2) in your Push: then use Set_Pulse Time(5) in your Release: you may find that it achieves the result your looking for
  • viningvining Posts: 4,368
    Colin wrote:
    If you use Set_Pulse Time(2) in your Push: then use Set_Pulse Time(5) in your Release:
    I usually just put it in the push on the next line after sending the IR. 
    {
    PUSH:
	{
	nButton = (BUTTON.INPUT.CHANNEL)
	to [BUTTON.INPUT.DEVICE,nButton]
	set_pulse_time (2)
	pulse [dvTV,nButton]
	set_pulse_time (5)
	}
    }
  • Jeff BJeff B Posts: 37
    I have never used the MIN_TO command here and never had a problem. I understand your point, but IR remotes do not come with with this feature. The timing here can be more precisely controlled by human interaction. The Set_Pulse_time keyword has increments, the human is an analog device.
    jjames wrote:

    On a side note, when I say "covering up the IR window", I do mean to cover up the window (about 95%) and then place the emitter over the tape with either more tape silicone.

    The instruction sheet that comes with the IR emitter, provides instructions for using either the high power or the low power side of the emitter, although I have never had to use this in practice.
  • DHawthorneDHawthorne Posts: 4,584
    Colin wrote:
    If you use Set_Pulse Time(2) in your Push: then use Set_Pulse Time(5) in your Release: you may find that it achieves the result your looking for

    But it's still global, and will affect every other device in your system .. including relays and IO ports (if you happen to be using any as outputs). What if you don't want every other device to wind up at 5 on your release? And why switch everything on every button press on every device? Much better to use CTON and CTOFF and the SP command.
  • viningvining Posts: 4,368
    DHawthorne wrote:
    Much better to use CTON and CTOFF and the SP command.
    I know for me I'd have to plead ignorance cuz I haven't used those commands yet but it is on my list of things I still do wrong that I need to address. For now though cuz it ain't broke I have to wait until I have time to fix it.
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