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IcspMsgTimeout - MVP-8400 disconnecting from netlinx

Alex_TAlex_T Posts: 11
in AMX Hardware
Hello,

I have a system with an MVP-8400, NI-3100, and R-4. The MVP keeps dropping the connection to the netlinx. The R-4 runs fine. On a regular interval of every 130 seconds the MVP's logs show this message:

09-07-2008 SUN 16:34:27 BlinkMissTimeout
Blink Messages Missed

I removed all code from DEFINE_PROGRAM, swapped the panel with a new one with updated firmware, and sat next to the wireless AP to make sure this wasn't a wireless issue, but the problem persists. Has anyone come across this before?

Comments

  • glr-ftiglr-fti Posts: 286
    Is this set up as static or DHCP? If static are you certain that there isn't another device with the same IP?
  • ColzieColzie Posts: 470
    Sometimes the master's auto negotiation for an Ethernet speed can cause problems. You can try setting your master to a fixed Ethernet rate

    "set ethernet mode 10 half"

    Although your R4 works fine, and that should be through the Ethernet port, too....
  • ericmedleyericmedley Posts: 4,177
    There have been a couple issues that have plagued the wireless touch panels. One being mentioned before about forcing the NI master to 10/half. In addition to this there are some routers/switches that, although work fine for all other things, cause problems with the NI's NIC card. I've found that some of the lower level Linksys routers/switches exhibit this. Change them out to a Netgear or higher level Linksys and the problem goes away.

    The other problem is inteference on the WiFi network. If the client has 2.4Ghz cordless telephones, you may have problems. Or, if they or you are using Zigbee. We finally purchased an RF Spectrum Analyzer and it has been a God-send. We've found so many problems and corrected them with it. Watch out for other systems in the home that use FHSS technology. It can reek havoc on WiFi in general.

    The symptoms of problem one seem to be that the panel(s) go offline and stay off for extended periods of time. The symptom of problem two is more sporatic behavior. But the panels generally stay online for the most part.
  • truetrue Posts: 307
    I used to have this issue consistently - although, quite honestly, I can't remember the solution. It did not involve changing hardware. It could have been a configuration issue, or sending less data to the panel. I've also had issues with WPA with most WAPs on these panels, where they will fail to communicate.
  • Alex_TAlex_T Posts: 11
    Problem solved: changed the Netlinx connection speed to 10/half duplex.

    Thanks for the tips.
  • shanemshanem Posts: 28
    8400 dropout

    I am currently having the exact same issues as posted by the OP
    09-07-2008 SUN 16:34:27 BlinkMissTimeout
    Blink Messages Missed.
    However even after changing all the NetLinx settings as described above the problems still persist. We have purchased wi-spy to try and help us figure out the problem but one room aside everything seems fine. We have 6 MVP8400s in total - each communicating through a WAP250G all on channels 1, 6, & 11 but far enough away from each other so as not to overlap.But the client complains that they still drop out (one at a time - at seemingly random times) fairly regularly and even though I have provided a reboot button on the panel they say they need to take out the batteries to get the panel operational again! My next step is to change over the switch to a Netgear Managed Switch in hope that it makes a difference. Does anyone have any further suggestions? Any help appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Shane
  • ericmedleyericmedley Posts: 4,177
    shanem wrote: »
    I am currently having the exact same issues as posted by the OP
    09-07-2008 SUN 16:34:27 BlinkMissTimeout
    Blink Messages Missed.
    However even after changing all the NetLinx settings as described above the problems still persist. We have purchased wi-spy to try and help us figure out the problem but one room aside everything seems fine. We have 6 MVP8400s in total - each communicating through a WAP250G all on channels 1, 6, & 11 but far enough away from each other so as not to overlap.But the client complains that they still drop out (one at a time - at seemingly random times) fairly regularly and even though I have provided a reboot button on the panel they say they need to take out the batteries to get the panel operational again! My next step is to change over the switch to a Netgear Managed Switch in hope that it makes a difference. Does anyone have any further suggestions? Any help appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Shane

    Not to pile on, but we've completely discontinued use of the WAP250G's. We had a very high failure rate with them. (well over 60%) It is my personal opinion that they run too hot. Having said that, we still have several of the earlier 200s that run just fine. In fact the one in my home is the old AMX WAP and it still chugs along nicely.

    Correct me if I"m wrong but the WAP250G is a non-diversity antenna array. I think that could be a problem with multiple panels/WAPs in a house. All WiFi devices are 'offline' quite a bit. Non-diversity setups are a lot more prone to Flutter/Picket Fencing. A diversity antenna array will swith over to the better of the two antenna when things get flaky.

    Some of the robustness of WiFi networks is general is credited to how the NIC cards handle this. I've found that AMX TPs in general are a little more finicky about the inherent down-time that happens. If a PCs card is having a bad time communicating back and forth for a short burst of time, It doesn't necessarily give up totally. It just keeps working along in aticipation of the network finally getting back up to speed.

    We currently install the Cisco Aeronet 1100s and just love them to peices. They are a little higher up the food chain and do require a little more knowledge upon setup. But the end result is a rock-solid WiFi network.
  • siebsieb Posts: 9
    shanem wrote: »
    I am currently having the exact same issues as posted by the OP
    09-07-2008 SUN 16:34:27 BlinkMissTimeout
    Blink Messages Missed.
    However even after changing all the NetLinx settings as described above the problems still persist. We have purchased wi-spy to try and help us figure out the problem but one room aside everything seems fine. We have 6 MVP8400s in total - each communicating through a WAP250G all on channels 1, 6, & 11 but far enough away from each other so as not to overlap.But the client complains that they still drop out (one at a time - at seemingly random times) fairly regularly and even though I have provided a reboot button on the panel they say they need to take out the batteries to get the panel operational again! My next step is to change over the switch to a Netgear Managed Switch in hope that it makes a difference. Does anyone have any further suggestions? Any help appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Shane

    Shane We have had issues with 8400's and connections, and have been looking for the solution for many years (many pissed clients later). The most recent "fix" that has shown the most promise, is to a. use enterprise quality WAPs, b. change the WAPs to "b only", and c. lower the speed on the WAPs manually to 1Mbs. The speed thing made the most difference, and has gotten our troubled installs to an acceptable state. Another big one is the roaming, if you don't need it, turn it off on the panels. We have found that the 8400 will connect to an out of range AP on occasion, then proceed to go haywire with online/offline events while never reconnecting to the stronger one. Also put a connection indicator (for the master connection) on the panel, so the user can see when it is not connected instead of punching buttons for 5 minutes, the last few of which they have the phone in the other hand calling you. Good luck... -Sieb
  • Alex_TAlex_T Posts: 11
    Alex_T wrote: »
    Problem solved: changed the Netlinx connection speed to 10/half duplex.

    Thanks for the tips.

    This helped the connection but after receiving more complaints from the customer we had an AMX technician arrive on-site and troubleshoot. The current firmware for MVP-8400 and MVP-5200 does not adequately support WPA encryption, especially while roaming.

    The solution is to roll the wireless back to WEP encryption, and wait for the next firmware update which hopefully fixes this.

    You can install 802.11G access points, but make sure to stay away from 802.11N as there are known issues. If you use an 802.11N access point, just make sure to enable "B and G Mode Only". It is not necessary to throttle the wireless speed as seib has mentioned. I can't imagine the panel performance while displaying live video from a security camera, or downloading album art from a media server while its connected at 1Mbs, but I bet it helps panels running programs that are less bandwidth-intensive.

    Since removing WPA and enabling WEP we have received no calls about the dropped connection.
  • viningvining Posts: 4,368
    I've never tried anything but WEP and would use WEP even if there weren't wireless TPs to set up a residential network. I know the IT guys would have heart attack to hear that but I'm not as paranoid as they are. I don't think the world is out to get me or my customers. My customers aren't that paranoid either, in fact I often have to argue with them to use any security at all. The only reason I want at least the minimal security is to keep the neighbors from using their system and being able to view their shared files. If you leave the shades open while changing people will eventually start watching. Well maybe not if I'm changing but you get the idea.

    I find most people aren't smart enough to crack WEP even if you can download an a free app that can do it in 5 minutes. The folks that are smart enough I would expect have better things to do and if they don't they would get bored real fast with what they would find. Obviously there are exceptions to this rule where security is paramount but normally those aren't my jobs.
    __________________
    VAV
  • Alex_TAlex_T Posts: 11
    I came into the AMX game from a networking background. It is somewhat unsettling to leave a house with WEP encryption, but I guess it does keep the neighbors out. From a customer service aspect: it is more difficult for homeowners to keep track of a 26 digit code just to put their kids game system or another laptop on the wireless network. It's much easier to make the WPA password a dog's name or something easy to remember, and it's obviously more secure.
  • viningvining Posts: 4,368
    Alex_T wrote:
    It's much easier to make the WPA password a dog's name or something easy to remember, and it's obviously more secure.
    Well heck, had I known that I would have been sold on using WPA years ago!

    I did try WPA when it first came out and there were too many problems so I went back to WEP and I never looked back. If I could get rid of the WEP key and use simple and easy to remember password my customers would be much, much happier.
  • ericmedleyericmedley Posts: 4,177
    vining wrote: »
    Alex_T wrote:

    Well heck, had I known that I would have been sold on using WPA years ago!

    I did try WPA when it first came out and there were too many problems so I went back to WEP and I never looked back. If I could get rid of the WEP key and use simple and easy to remember password my customers would be much, much happier.

    We use an easy to remember 64 bit wep key.

    Also, some laptops still have trouble with WPA.

    But I would do WPA if it proved stable.
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