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IRS4 dont always work (foxtel digital australia)

after spending two days trying all sorts of configurations with an external IRS4 (external ir controller) i can positively say that it will not work with the australian fox digital settop box.

it will repeat codes randomly.

no one say to me check programming, check CTON, check PULSE, check XCHN, check firmware, check connections. it's all been done.

what i say here is fact, the hardware of the IRS4 will not work with the most recent digital pay tv set top box in australia.

(i have to state quite clearly that this is fact. there are many doubting thomas' out there who always blame the programmer first. i am over it. when i say something is faulty, i mean it)

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    DHawthorneDHawthorne Posts: 4,584
    Well, that's what happens when there are no industry standards. They probably use a strange IR scheme that the IRS4 can't replicate, or perhaps the IRIS couldn't capture properly. I've run into similar situations on very rare occasions where I have had to drop back and punt. I wouldn't go as far as to say the IRS4 is faulty...it can be just as likely the box is faulty, or more likely, they just can't talk well to each other.

    With any luck, someone who has worked with that exact device will have a solution for you.
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    i forgot to add... the ir of the controller box will operate the foxtel digital set top box just fine. it's the IRS4 system that's faulty.

    oh, and i had the same results with two IRS4s
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    Try this trick

    Use another learning remote such as a Philips Pronto to learn the cable box remote. If this works, use this other remote with the Iris to build the file IR file for the IRS4.

    Sometimes you can get working codes from www.remotecentral.com to control a device.

    Just to make sure your IRS4 and emitter is good, try them both with another component such as a DVD player or VCR.

    Good luck.
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    thanks for the suggestions.

    but please read my post carefully.

    i am not going to waste another moment on this problem. i've proven what is at fault. i rest my case.

    some one prove me wrong
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    So what other AMX ir device have you used that works? I mean to prove that the IRS4 is at fault you would have to prove that the IR codes you learned are good.

    We're trying to give you some help here to make it work, but don't appear to want it.. Why post at all?

    Kevin D.
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    read my posts.

    i am not posting this here as a discussion.

    i am posting here to help others avoid the pain and humiliation of spending days chasing their frigging tail.

    THERE IS A FAULT, A BUG, WHATEVER. IT"S THERE.

    i've been thru every thing, don't make any more suggestions.

    i've read thru forums, tried different codes/devices.. the list goes on.

    this is not a discussion, it's the truth. it's proven.

    nothing personal to anyone trying to reply. i know you're trying to help.

    but really, i've covered it all.

    there is a fault. it doesn't occur when operating directly from a controller. it happens on more than one IRS4.

    it did cause problems for a DIGITEC 2000xx as well as the Foxtel Digital Settop box.

    maybe i have TWO faulty IRS4 that exhibit the same bug. but not likely.

    the IR codes i used where from our local distributor. i also created them in IRIS. i also tried to edit them.

    it was all a waste of time. the problem is that the IRS4 do not behave the same as the IR within a controller.
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    Sorry, when you mentioned 'controller box' on your first reply I read it as being the 'box's controller' (ie the remote)..

    Is the foxtel box being built by a international company in case any of us elsewhere in the world run into the same box as a different brand?

    Thanks,

    Kevin D.
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    sorry for the mislead. yep, the controller is the netlinx box.

    i think they are a 'PACE' product, but i will try to find more information and submit it.
    (update - i believe the box is a PACE 420, satellite digital pay tv)

    the DIGITEC is a digital tv receiver. i think it's an international product.

    a quick note on the DIGITEC.

    i could get it to work on the controller, but only by using a CTON and CTOF setup (1 and 5 respectively). this was one thing that threw the whole trouble shooting process around.

    sometimes i would think it's just getting CTON/OF right, but i still came back to the same conclusion.

    the Foxtel Digital Cable TV box did not require CTON/OF when attached directly to the controller. when tried on the IRS4 it made matters worse.

    so, besides concluding the IRS4s have a problem, i also had to use CTON for DIGITEC digital tv (for operation when attached to the netlinx controller)

    i hope that's all reasonably clear.
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    DHawthorneDHawthorne Posts: 4,584
    I use very few IRS4 boxes, but it is clear they use a different chipset then the masters. For one, you can't set serial/IR or carrier/no carrier modes by code, there are different connections and dipswitch settings. That said, I have never found a situation where I couldn't make the IRS4 work, but that doesn't really mean much. I tend to agree with Richard that there is a fault in the IRS4 hardware or firmware causing this problem. A good heads-up.
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    up late at night (early morning) and remembered a thought i had on this last year.

    there are two key types, repeat and single hit.

    repeats are things like volume up/down, channel up/down and numbers.

    single hit are line select, power, etc.

    single hit keys will not really create a problem.

    but use a repeat key and that's were it begins sending erratic codes.

    hope that helps anyone.
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    Don't blame the hardware.
    Originally posted by RichardHamilton
    read my posts.
    i am not posting this here as a discussion.

    A forum is a discussion, right?

    the IR codes i used where from our local distributor. i also created them in IRIS. i also tried to edit them.

    Any problem I have ever had with an IRS4 has been either a defective IRS4 (does not output at all) or a bad IR file, including IR files provided directly from AMX.

    Trust me, the IR file can be fixed for repeating codes with the correct capture technique. I have experienced this problem first hand.

    Blame the IRIS, not the IRS4. This why I suggested you try another smart remote for IR capture.
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    I'll jump in here too. I agree with trying a Pronto before throwing in the towel. Can the Pronto control it? If no then I suggest you goto the support boards of Foxtel. If it can then learn those to a new IRedit file. Then use IREdit to pulse the commands. CTON and CTOF have had issues with certain frimwares. Try a pulse command, try different timings, check that the IRS4 can control other dievices, check that the friggin emmitter is good.

    I think it is mis-leading and over all detremental for someone to use these bulletins to announce that X device doesn't work with AMX. Send AMX the box then, tell them to get it controllable. But until AMX says that without a doubt there is a problem with the IR Pulsing of an IRS4 for X device, please hold your frustrations off to prevent other people from using X device.
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    DHawthorneDHawthorne Posts: 4,584
    Originally posted by RichardHamilton
    up late at night (early morning) and remembered a thought i had on this last year.

    there are two key types, repeat and single hit.

    repeats are things like volume up/down, channel up/down and numbers.

    single hit are line select, power, etc.

    single hit keys will not really create a problem.

    but use a repeat key and that's were it begins sending erratic codes.

    hope that helps anyone.
    Well, that puts a different face on it. Definitely a pulse timing issue - whether the IRS4 is sending them out badly, or they were not captured well in the first place. I've seen both happen, so it's a toss-up. I know you don't want to re-visit that particular job, and if it's working now, I wouldn't either. But what I do when I have repeated commands like that going out, is to use the SEND_COMMAND dev, "'SP',xx" instead of PULSE[dev, xx]. Then I can put a SEND_COMMAND for the CTON and CTOFF values individually for each device in the ONLINE event for that port. Actually, come to think of it, I almost never use PULSE. I say this with the caveat that I only rarely use IRS4 boxes too, so I don't know from experience if they handle these commands differently, but it sure does seem they handle the PULSE command differently, or at least have different defaults.
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    A thought, if it's only on these hold functions why not use a TO command instead? That seems to work brilliantly for things like volume etc, much better than a hold[1,repeat] kind of thing. TO will keep that channel on until you release the button.
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    the reason why i says its a fact is..

    i've done everything you are suggesting. none of it works.
    i would not have reached this conclusion without spending the time testing, reading everything that was already in the forum, trying it. most of you have already made contributions related to these subjects and i have read and acted on them all.

    are you trying to tell me that when i create an IRL file for a device I will need one for operating directly from a netlinx integrated controller, and another file for use in the IRS4.

    and, that the second file has to be created using some voodoo black magic spell when the moon is full and wind blows from the south.
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    so if you've tried everything mentioned above does that mean that a Pronto couldn't control the device either? And if I hear you correctly you are saying that the NI controls the device with the IRfile, but when you upload it to the IRS4 it doesn't control it?
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    pronto and other controllers works fine. (sorry, when i said 'none of it works', i meant none of it achieves the goal of getting the device to work with the IRS4)

    and yep, the NI controller works fine with the IRL file. it's only when used in the IRS4.
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    Okay, this may seem stupid, but take the exact emitter from the NI and use it on the IRS4, also make sure the IRS4 is the right address,online, try a different port, try a controlling another device, I'm sure you might have checked this before but I'm just trying to help eliminate possabilities fr ya. And if you still can't get teh thing controllable, send the Box to AMX tell them to get it working. Do you have an older AXB-IRS4. Actually is this an AXB or NXC IRS4?
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    yep, same emitter head.

    done all the port swapping and i do know if a device is online and addressed correctly.

    this would be an NXC i think. it uses the ICSNet connection.

    i've also tried two of the same model. and i replaced the firmware in one of them to the latest.

    i mean really, what does it take ?

    NOTE ON OTHER AFFECTED PRODUCTS.

    i have to go back to another customer now and revisit the installation where another IRS4 is installed.

    since the installation we have had problems there with IR repeats and erratic behaviour.

    the products there are Optus Analogue Cable and an Asia Satellite system, but i don't have the product name with me.

    all sorts of things have been tried in an attempt to control their devices. to the point on putting the emitters at obscure angles to try to cut down on the errors.

    this is a bit vague right now, so when i get back onsite, review it all, and try to patch it, i will note the results here.
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    Spire_JeffSpire_Jeff Posts: 1,917
    I hesitate to post this because I do not have hands on experience with this topic, but I swear I heard from someone that the old landmark TV control devices had problems working with some cable tv receivers and they had never found a way to get them to work. The same may hold true for the IRS4. I must also say that this doesn't surprise me in the least. With everybody and their brother coming out with their own IR communications protocol, it makes it very difficult to design a product that can be a one size fits all solution. A few of the more memorable ones in my list include: Some Polk equalizer/preamp type controller with an RTI T1 and the horrible MS Media box with it's two IR codes for each button.

    Also, it sounds like Richard has done quite the extensive bit of testing on the matter and if I want to thank him for posting in the odd event that I run across such a device.

    Jeff
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    the foxtel digital box i've been referring to is apparently a PACE 420.

    it's a satelitte receiver for digital pay tv.

    i still have to check, but another device in question is the Optus Analogue Cable (australia). it's a Jerrold (General Instruments) CFT2010. i'll know more on this once i get to the customer.
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    ok, the Optus Analogue Cable (australia) passed the tests yesterday.

    so, as should be expected, some older technologies work fine with the IRS4.

    glad i cleared that one up :)

    the solution for the Optus, which worked on both the NI-3000 and the IRS4, was to use CTON=1 and CTOF=5, this prevents a repeating problem that was occuring in both configurations.

    it's just down to the foxtel digital now. might just be some new technique/technology. (still hoping it's not something i've missed).
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