Duet Pricing/Cost of Ownership?
vegastech
Posts: 369
I found an old thread (4 years old) re: Duet pricing, and I was wondering if it is still at the ~900.00 range. Are there any additional costs (i.e. hardware) incurred when getting the Cafe Duet Suite? What about yearly updates/multiple installations? Most importantly, as I have not programmed in Java before, is there a specific Java programming book that would be most beneficial for myself to start with? (Not coming from a computer programming background)
0
Comments
Having been programming in Duet now for a few months, if you really utilize the power of Java, it can provide a number of real advantages. These include multi-threading, far more powerful network capabilities, use of vectors, among them. And I am no Java expert, although I am learning it quickly.
I won't begin to say whether the overhead on processing speed is better or worse than simply doing the same thing in Netlinx, but that largely depends on what you are trying to do. There are just things you can do in Java that would be very difficult to do in Netlinx and if you need those tasks, then Java can be very powerful.
If you are really proficient in Java, you can ultimately, do everything that Netlinx does, directly in one or multiple Java modules. Is it an ideal platform for all Netlinx programming, probably not. But it is something to consider, if you are developing more involved applications.
The other advantage that I see with Java is on the hiring side. If you are a growing business looking to add programmers, it can be very difficult to find qualified Netlinx programmers (unless you simply train them in-house). But in today's market, to find qualified Java programmers is not difficult at all. And then they can hit the road running. They probably will still need to learn Netlinx to a point, but I'd rather teach a Java programmer how to program in Netlinx than the other way around, if I could even find a Netlinx programmer.
The only cost for Duet is the license fee itself. I won't discuss the actual amount as this is a public forum, but you can certainly contact AMX directly.
Just my thoughts.
Sheldon Samuels
SchoolView Technologies, LLC
www.schoolviewtech.com
Because of the general lack of documentation and understanding I've started putting together a list a duet resources I've been able to find throughout this forum. You can find it here. If you happen to stuble across more useful information please feel free to add to it.
I haven't written any AMX modules in Java, but I would agree. Having Java's multi-threading, all the dynamic structures, containers, math and other libraries would be very nice. I thought maybe they wanted Java to run on the touch panels which would be really cool if you could use Swing with all the 2D/3D libraries. If Java ends up in Blu-ray players and other devices, then having AMX in Java could be a coup.
I think most studies have shown Java is as fast, and sometimes even faster than C in almost all applications. The Java AMX uses is JME so its likely optimized for speed as well. I would guess that almost all the problems with Java are a result of the program not the platform. Well written Java apps rock (eg JetBrains). The early Duet modules had more problems than the recent ones which are much better, running on the same platform so I have to assume the improvement was due to the code not the bytecode.
I would agree that I would rather teach a Java programmer Netlinx than the other way around. I have written more code in Java than Netlinx, so I tend to write my Netlinx code like a Java program anyway.
Paul
In Programmer 3, we did a quick and dirty speed test and Cafe Duet code was able to run circles around NetLinx as far as speed of execution was concerned. The big slow down is when you need to pass data between the duet and netlinx sides using SNAPI. The overhead involved in using SNAPI negates the gains of Duet. At least as far as I was told
Jeff
A Building Java Modules training class is available at the Chicago training center Oct. 5-7 in case anyone is interested. I understand that each student will be provided with a complimentary copy of Caf? Duet.
http://www.amx.com/training/lms/calendars/AMXMidwest.htm
Any idea who is teaching the class? Also, Cafe Duet for everyone that attends is a VERY nice incentive.
Jeff
Is there a discount on Duet if you take the class???
The first Duet module we wrote in class was for an RS-232 Tascam DVD. The module supported both control and feedback.
Next we wrote a Duet module that controlled and received feedback from an IP based switcher. The switcher was a Java app written by Nick.
Last we wrote a small program for a TP and relays that was entirely* written in Java. The only piece of Netlinx code was a one line define_module to kick start Duet. The SNAPI router didn?t come into play as Duet grabbed a hold of the devices.
The Duet class ranks near, if not at the top of, my list of AMX classes I?ve taken so far. I had an intro to Duet during Programmer III in Dallas last year that was enough to whet my appetite but after the three days this week I?m hungry for much more as I feel we only scratched the surface. I hope Duet II training is somewhere on the horizon.
Thanks again to Nick and thanks to the other 5 intelligent and friendly students in the class. It was a refreshing break from my daily routine.
And lastly a thanks to Brian for the heads up about the class.
*** crickets chirping *****
**** silence ******
'bump bump' is this thing one?
***** chrickets chirping ********
I want to second the recommendation of Nick as an excellent instructor and general Duet guru.
I would also like to second the request for a Duet II training. I too would like to delve further into the Duet rabbit hole and having 3 days with Nick at the helm and individuals like Joe in the class would be highly beneficial.
Eric, read Joe's post. It seems like you get a FREE copy of Duet when you take the training.
Jeff
Complimentary Copy = Provided to you at no charge in exchange for attending the course = Free.
Joe, on behalf of AMX thank you for attending and the kind words.
But then again, we haven't sold a new AMX job since the financial crash. My future as an AMX programmer is very much in doubt right now at all. We have been doing a great number of Universal and Prontos ... which can almost do as much as the AMX, for considerably less money. I hate them to ... tedious, and fiddly, and never quite what I would like; but that is what is selling.
With all due respect, no truth to that rumor.
Another part of it, personally, is that my boss tends to consider my labor as a "free" resource. He pays me the same salary no matter what I am working on, and he is not so much concerned about how much time I spend on something as whether I am getting everything done. His partner doesn't share that attitude, which makes some interesting dynamics, but mostly I just do what I have to do and don't worry too much about how long I have to fiddle with it. When looked at that way, ease of programming and familiarity with the product is not as important as the price point of the product itself. And that is where AMX falls short. It's ironic ... I can bang out an AMX controlled theater in a few hours if I don't need to make any custom modules, where I might fiddle with a Pronto for the identical system and take a full day. They only see the price of the Pronto compared to the AMX, and figure I'll eventually get faster as I do more Prontos ... which is true to a point, but I don't think it will ever compare to banging out a NetLinx system.
Business (overall) are going great for us here in the Netherlands, we've just expanded and hired 3 more employees. I personally program rti, pronto, control4, vantage, ******** and amx and I can honestly say we've been growing on all those, though we've stopped dealing RTI because that just gave us too much trouble for what it's worth. (And an employee of RTI bashing all the other companies on their stand at the ISE didn't really help)
We've got several big jobs coming up as well (AMX jobs) like 60 (60 NXD-500i's) rooms in a university, several big homes(r4's and 5200i's), and a few jobs for amx in conference rooms. As well as a lot of non-amx jobs. Mmm, I've started bragging now so I'll stop that.