I would have to agree that programming is the achilles' heel of an AMX system but that's also the part that sets it apart from the rest and can make an AMX system better than anything else available.
I agree with Vining. In fact, our clients tend to feel that if they paid enough money to have AMX on their stuff, it darned well better be something unique and customized. The client didn't by a Lamborghini to haul hay bails. It'd better drive fast and with great handling. It'd better turn heads too.
The market tends to weed out the bottom dwellers. At least that's what we see in our market. If a company has a less-than-stellar staff, they're off the short list pretty quickly.
Our way of dealing with this is to make the UI the most customizable and tend towards repeatable/reliable as we move towards the gear itself. This kind of thing is fairly transparent to the user and still allows them a lot of customization in how the thing interacts with them and visa versa.
I would have to agree that programming is the achilles' heel of an AMX system but that's also the part that sets it apart from the rest and can make an AMX system better than anything else available.
Exactly why AMX is the only platform that can run CineTouch's relational database interpreter. The best thing about AMX is that it can do anything. With that power comes the work... making it do anything.
Other systems are often easier to make them do ordinary things. In AMX, you aren't limited to the ordinary.
John - obviously at some low level there is AMX Netlinx code running the system and your high level interface allows that to be customized. I can see that there might be some cool "subsets" of code that would be interesting to have and wanted to know if you had the option to buy various "blocks", "modules" or whatever you call it stand-alone independent of the "package".
It would be things that I'm perfectly capable of writing myself, but I would be willing to pay a few hundred dollars if it would save me 10 or 20 hours of work.
John - obviously at some low level there is AMX Netlinx code running the system and your high level interface allows that to be customized. I can see that there might be some cool "subsets" of code that would be interesting to have and wanted to know if you had the option to buy various "blocks", "modules" or whatever you call it stand-alone independent of the "package".
It would be things that I'm perfectly capable of writing myself, but I would be willing to pay a few hundred dollars if it would save me 10 or 20 hours of work.
Sorry, we don't sell it that way, and it wouldn't work if we did. As we are all database-driven and object oriented, there are many services that manage the repetitive and lookup tasks... every function is a data set applied parametrically when and where needed. So all parts use... all the other parts. This makes it much easier to develop new functions and device support, as we only need to define what makes it unique and then hand off to the services that check permissions, locale, routing, touch panel updates and synchronization, interaction with events, etc.
A summary of our price schedule is back a few pages in this topic... or email us and we can have a conversation... thanks for your interest!
John Nagy http://cinetouch.com
info - at - cinetouch.com for email
Our phone and contact info is detailed on the website. Avoiding it here due to potential screenscraping spambots.
It's pretty much the same paradigm that AMX.home and VA use, though implemented very differently. Every possible device and connection exists in the main code, and your setup only determines which are activated and accessible. It's all there though, and if you add something new, it just comes alive, so to speak.
It's pretty much the same paradigm that AMX.home and VA use, though implemented very differently. Every possible device and connection exists in the main code, and your setup only determines which are activated and accessible. It's all there though, and if you add something new, it just comes alive, so to speak.
That's not at all how it works. There are no connections or devices in the CineTouch code. The code is a service system that does whatever the data configuration requires. All devices are defined in data libraries that include communication parameters, timing characteristics, functions it does or does not have, what page sets it should use (from another data library of pages), what channel vendor to use (from another data library of channels), etc. When you define system devices, sources, and rooms for the specific job, you also enter preferred input and output connections, plus other preferences for display behaviors (and much more if desired), and when selected, the code looks it all up and issues the commands required (related to the defined devices) in a standard parametric way such that redefining devices later is abstract from the infrastructure... making change very simple and additions entirely a data event.
This also makes entirely referential actions work whatever the specifics might be. If I put an aspect button on a page as an option button, when pressed, the system determines who pressed it, where and what devices are in use FOR THAT USER at the moment, and then sends sends whatever command through whatever control ports is required to make the Display that user is looking at change aspect, regardless of being IR or RS232 or IP. In a different room (or even in the same room while using an alternate TV or projector), CineTouch will send the right command for the INTENT of the user. Change out the TV next week, and no other change is required for the commands to be correct again... they travel with the definition. By the same token, change/expand a 6-DVR DirecTV system to 3 Comcast, 3 Dish, and 2 DTV in about 2 minutes... altogether. No touch panel changes either.
Incidentally, but not at all required, you could indeed configure a number of sources that aren't yet installed, allowing you to plan all the I/O and control ports up front, and mark them as unavailable, hiding them from the UI. Then one click would bring any or all online in seconds once they were ready.
We're excited to be welcoming new dealers to CineTouch, many of them as a result of our visit to the AMX NEW YORK CITY SHOWROOM in March. We were invited there by AMX to speak to well over a dozen dealers, and many of them are signed up to be dealers. Many thanks to Jamie Finnegan of AMX who made it possible, and to Mike Alpert, our dealer from Nantucket, for helping with the New York event. We'll be doing more of these.
A special shout-out to FORRESTER TECH, a dealer in Springfield, MO who joined us and trained in mid December 2009. In less than 2 months, they had INSTALLED 8 CINETOUCH SYSTEMS, and have what appears to be prospects for at least that many more in the immediate future. Major kudos for proving that the jobs are there if you know how to find them.
With each new dealer, we get more understanding and appreciation for the many variations in system design. We keep adding features and new supported devices to make YOUR job easier and more profitable.
CineTouch continues to grow and improve - in the last two months, we've added a lot to our existing support:
New Devices
IMC Movie server from REQUEST
HAI Thermostats (2-way)
HAI Security SYstems (2-way)
Ademco Security Systems (2-way)
McIntosh Blue Ray DVD RS232
Pioneer Blue Ray DVD RS232
Stewart BRIC Screen controller RS232
SIM2 Projectors RS232
Bryston AVRs RS232
Future Automation Lifts RS232
Lens Glider Sled RS232
Integra AVR via IP control
AMX VOL-3 as an accessory volume device (AXLINK)
AMX AXB-NET as an Ethernet transport for AXLINK
Color Knetics Lightshow controller RS232
MET-ECOM Door intercom and camera (IP)
NXV-300 Remote Panel controller (VNC and Web panel)
Lots of displays and DVD's on IR
Improved Support
Squeezebox 2-way
Kaliedescape 2-way
All thermostats (2-way)
Just Add Power (HDMI over Ethernet)
Sonance iPort RS232
R4 Remote (keeps getting better!)
Added 2-way port support for AXCENT3 and external RS232 boxes for more I/O
Added INTERNAL IR PICKUP support for AMX 5" 7" and 10" panels
MONTAGE images now in their own folder for convenience
hundreds of code and data improvements for functionality, speed, and reliability
New Features
"i" Series Panel Intercom and Door Cameras (MAJOR feature)
Configurator
New Release as of April, 2010
Now automatically checks for updates if over 2 weeks since last check
Improved prompts and help files
Minor bug fixes and enhancements
New Base Data for all new devices
New support for Intercom and Phone setup
Coming by MAY - Version 7.3
Telephony SIP Gateway
RADIO RA 2 (2way)
Vantage Infusion Lighting (2-way)
HAI Lighting control (2-way)
New Channel Maps and Icon sets
On-Panel channel editing
Updated FLASH client
New Touch Panel projects for more devices and channel icons
Enhanced iPhone and iPad use
Master-to-Master enhancement for better control of I/O
...and other suprizes!
How do you guys like the Just Add Power solution for distributing HDMI? Pros & Cons?
No real news, we like it a great deal and it is in use in a few CineTouch systems now, more planned soon. We find about 10% of OLD displays (3 years and older) don't like changing resolution on the HDMI port without an actual input change. Newer ones do much better, but nothing is certain until tested. We have seen the same problem with Faroudja and Runco equipment on their component inputs for years. We resolve it with macros if we have to by defining each source change to also make the display change to a different (empty) input, then change the source feed, then change the input back - and the port captures the new resolution. This isn't a JUST ADD POWER issue, it's a display and handshake issue that is more likely to be encountered with J.A.P.
Sorry to be unable yet to confirm that the cheap DELL managed switch works as well as the CISCO, the installations so far just bought the CISCO rather than experimenting, since CineTouch for sure knows how to talk to the Cisco with no issues.
The very good things are that the image degradation is slight enough to not notice except maybe on a good projector or maybe a 60" Pioneer. It's similar to DirecTV HD. You can spot artifacts on occasion, but seldom. Also the delay on the video is so small that analog sound matches well enough in every room.
Coming improvements will be welcome, and items mentioned to eventually be added including their triple transmitter, integrated power supplies, integrated component video conversion, audio management, IR and RS232 transfer... and an integrated HDMI ID multiplier. But not yet.
Meanwhile, it's a viable solution for specific situations, and reasonably priced.
The proof that it's viable is that the customers using it have not reported anything at all....
How do you guys like the Just Add Power solution for distributing HDMI? Pros & Cons?
I recently did an install for a 3x2 HDMI Matrix using Just Add Power. As I had some time in advance of the install I played around with the units and a few different switches...
JAP mentioned they had issues with Netgear managed switches - I had one on the bench, a FS726TP - while I could get it working and switching VLANs it took some beating, and everytime I cracked it everything worked for a while, even a day, then would fail and only a full reset, disconnecting everything would get me back. There is something in the VLAN implementation that screws with this idea.
General advise - avoid JAP and Netgear Switches like the plague!
I also had a HP ProCurve 2510 - this is a sub ?200 24port switch. This worked like a charm, a single CLI command would switch a port between VLAN's, the change is instant, the JAP data exchange was quick and the receivers would drop & lock to the new stream without issue. I can strongly recommend this unit for this application.
As for the JAP product itself - it does what it says on the tin, documentation is poor, but none is really needed.
Were these switches 100M per port or 1G? I know the J.A.P. specs say they only neeed 50-60mbps(?) and the cost difference between 24 x 1G ports versus 24 x 100meg ports is significant although the extra headroom would be nice to have for what ever the future might bring.
I've already spec'd a Cisco Catalyst 2960 with 1 gig ports for this project since I'm a loyal "Cisco" dealer which will be strictly for the video distribution but maybe if the 100meg sw's work fine I'll use that instead to make up for other losses. There doesn't appear to be anything else out there this scalable which is what sold me especially if you want more than 8 locations.
The new AMX switcher looks nice (only 8 in/outs) but that isn't available yet and with my "BRONZE" pricing it puts it out of my league unless I sell it at cost.
There doesn't appear to be anything else out there this scalable which is what sold me especially if you want more than 8 locations.
Take note that while J.A.P. will scale to even hundreds of locations, you ARE LIMITED in concurrent connections to the number of HDMI license/handshakes that the SOURCE DEVICE permits. Most appear to have 8 or 16 as their limit. Some cable boxes have been found to have ONE. That means only ONE display will connect at a time, regardless of successful switching. This is a limitation of HDMI, not of JUST ADD POWER. There's a lot of discussion including add on devices to work around this (pricey), and some tables of common sources at the JAP web site.
you ARE LIMITED in concurrent connections to the number of HDMI license/handshakes that the SOURCE DEVICE permits.
Yeah John I'm aware of that and that's one reason I love HDMI so much. There was a paper published on the C restron site I found maybe a year ago that used to list the number of licenses each manfacturers device would provide but I could no longer find it or figure out if I save it, where. That's one of those bits of info that manufacturers don't seem to provide either with out asking.
I just got my 2 Cisco switches (one for playing and one for the job) both 2960's but 1 was the WS-C2960-24-S and the other WS-C2960-24TT-L both run the LAN Lite software but the first doesn't have uplink ports so it retails for just under $800.00 while the other has the 2 gig ports for uplink but a retail cost of $1,299.00 (i think). I'll play with both and hopefully the cheaper one will do the job equally as well since I don't need the uplinks. This is obviously still more than the Procurve or the Dell solution but I need to keep the Cisco guys happy too.
...the first doesn't have uplink ports so it retails for just under $800.00 while the other has the 2 gig ports for uplink but a retail cost of $1,299.00 (i think).
I'm pretty sure our dealers used the cheaper one... the price they mentioned was around $700-$800.
Great to hear that the HP is good too, and JAP themselves suggests the $250 DELL.
John
CineTouch will be showing the new VERSION 8 software at CEDIA...
We'll be in the ADA Booth, next door to AMX... and maybe in the AMX booth too.
Look for us... and see the new look of CineTouch V8.
Lots of changes under the hood too... including support for 100 rooms, 100 panels, and more in our new distributed master architecture that retains all the power of a central intelligence and user personalization... now practically without limits.
CineTouch will be exhibiting at the ISE show, Feb 1-3 in Amsterdam, Netherlands. This is a huge show comparable with CEDIA. All of Europe and much of Asia, Australia, Africa, and the Mideast go to this show to select product lines like we do here at CES.
We'll be in a combined Residential-centric area with our friends at ADA, DBOX, and others. We'll also be on display in the AMX area, near our friends at TP CONTROL.
If you are going to the show, you'll see our new Version 8 CineTouch, which will be formally released for deployment concurrent with the show. We announced it at CEDIA, and took longer than intended to get it out, but now it's even better than it was going to be.
After the Amsterdam show, we'll be visiting Belgium, Rome, Naples and looking for distributors. More countries to follow.
When we get close to release, I'll post the details of the V8 product. We're making it better looking, better running, and more flexible... and holding the price where it's been.
I just got asked, and yes AMX will be there too. The pic below shows the AMX booth area in CYAN. CineTouch will have a display in the AMX booth as well.
We hope to meet many new dealers worldwide... see you there!
We're back from the ISE in Amsterdam... what a show! 35,000 people (is that more or less in metric?).
CineTouch was hugely well received - we were continuously busy showing the new V8 system on three touch panels in our booth area, which was three table tops in the central arch of our partner booth. We also CineTouch-automated the demo in the large concealed theater in the back of the booth.
The attached photos give an idea of how the crowd was in our area throughout the show. We have many highly qualified dealers and distributors (and hardware manufacturers) that want to do business. An exciting time.
By the way, there are many stories that we've heard about how the AMX vs Crestguys market was in Europe. From everything we heard from the people in it, AMX is well known and leading in commercial work, and way behind in residential. Just like here.
I'll have more on CineTouch V8 soon. It was well liked by the ISE audience. It should be deployable to customers in about a week after we tweak some things we saw in our demos.
We're back from the ISE in Amsterdam... what a show! 35,000 people (is that more or less in metric?).
CineTouch was hugely well received - we were continuously busy showing the new V8 system on three touch panels in our booth area, which was three table tops in the central arch of our partner booth. We also CineTouch-automated the demo in the large concealed theater in the back of the booth.
The attached photos give an idea of how the crowd was in our area throughout the show. We have many highly qualified dealers and distributors (and hardware manufacturers) that want to do business. An exciting time.
By the way, there are many stories that we've heard about how the AMX vs Crestguys market was in Europe. From everything we heard from the people in it, AMX is well known and leading in commercial work, and way behind in residential. Just like here.
I'll have more on CineTouch V8 soon. It was well liked by the ISE audience. It should be deployable to customers in about a week after we tweak some things we saw in our demos.
Mm, didn't check out your booth. Hadn't noticed you were there. Did hear about it at the AMX booth, apparently it spelled UG-LY on the panels. At least that's what I overheard.
Good for you that it was worth your time though. Shame I didn't see it.
If you missed his webinars today, here’s a clip as AMX VP of Residential Sales Blake Jackson talks for 8 minutes about CineTouch.
The slide content was edited by Blake from information supplied by CineTouch, but his comments are unsolicited observations of his own. I’m humbled by his glowing testimonial. At the link below you may chose RUN and view it more-or-less streaming, or SAVE it and view it on your desk. It’s a 4.5 megabyte file.
-removed- see following post
This is JUST the section about CineTouch and does not include the discount information about the new Packages from AMX. The entire presentation is likely to be offered online soon by AMX, and it repeats live twice on Monday April 4 at Noon and 3 Eastern time. All dealers were emailed link information.
FYI, three new hardware bundles from AMX, each including TPControl licenses, all at discount. CineTouch is offering base software to support these bundles at 65% off our dealer MSRP.
CEDIA is only 2 weeks away, CineTouch will be in the ADA booth again this year, hope to see many of you at the show.
We have several announcements this year.
First, we have a joint announcement with NuVo about our new turnkey deep integration with their sources and multiroom audio systems. You'll be able to join a NuVo system with an AMX system with just one serial cable, and the AMX touch panels will be interactive with the NuVo existing wall keypads. You'll share control and have two-way feedback between the systems. Details in the press release - http://cinetouch.com/NuVo-CT.pdf
Next, another joint announcement, this one with AUTONOMIC CONTROLS. CineTouch has added complete MIRAGE Media Server support into the base CineTouch system. That means full on-panel two way support for the Autonomic systems by just clicking it on, at no additional costs. It's a great box for integrators and they will have some exciting announcements about added functions and services that will have to be "SEEN" to be believed. And the CineTouch support will be ready for it. More information is in the press release - http://cinetouch.com/Autonomic-CT.pdf
Shortly I'll have another, describing our own announcement for CineTouch Version 8.2.
Okay - really . . . 10 of the past 12 posts were made by you gloating about your stupid product. No one gives a **** anymore, seriously. Enough with the damn blatant advertising on the forum - it makes you look like a complete tool. Give it a ****ing rest.
Please refer to the topic first posting, this topic was opened by, OH YEAH, YOU. Where you said, "I want to invite John, Gary and anyone from AMX to talk about their solutions - blow your own horn if you will."
This IS the place for it, a place YOU made for it.
Comments
I agree with Vining. In fact, our clients tend to feel that if they paid enough money to have AMX on their stuff, it darned well better be something unique and customized. The client didn't by a Lamborghini to haul hay bails. It'd better drive fast and with great handling. It'd better turn heads too.
The market tends to weed out the bottom dwellers. At least that's what we see in our market. If a company has a less-than-stellar staff, they're off the short list pretty quickly.
Our way of dealing with this is to make the UI the most customizable and tend towards repeatable/reliable as we move towards the gear itself. This kind of thing is fairly transparent to the user and still allows them a lot of customization in how the thing interacts with them and visa versa.
Exactly why AMX is the only platform that can run CineTouch's relational database interpreter. The best thing about AMX is that it can do anything. With that power comes the work... making it do anything.
Other systems are often easier to make them do ordinary things. In AMX, you aren't limited to the ordinary.
It would be things that I'm perfectly capable of writing myself, but I would be willing to pay a few hundred dollars if it would save me 10 or 20 hours of work.
Sorry, we don't sell it that way, and it wouldn't work if we did. As we are all database-driven and object oriented, there are many services that manage the repetitive and lookup tasks... every function is a data set applied parametrically when and where needed. So all parts use... all the other parts. This makes it much easier to develop new functions and device support, as we only need to define what makes it unique and then hand off to the services that check permissions, locale, routing, touch panel updates and synchronization, interaction with events, etc.
A summary of our price schedule is back a few pages in this topic... or email us and we can have a conversation... thanks for your interest!
John Nagy
http://cinetouch.com
info - at - cinetouch.com for email
Our phone and contact info is detailed on the website. Avoiding it here due to potential screenscraping spambots.
That's not at all how it works. There are no connections or devices in the CineTouch code. The code is a service system that does whatever the data configuration requires. All devices are defined in data libraries that include communication parameters, timing characteristics, functions it does or does not have, what page sets it should use (from another data library of pages), what channel vendor to use (from another data library of channels), etc. When you define system devices, sources, and rooms for the specific job, you also enter preferred input and output connections, plus other preferences for display behaviors (and much more if desired), and when selected, the code looks it all up and issues the commands required (related to the defined devices) in a standard parametric way such that redefining devices later is abstract from the infrastructure... making change very simple and additions entirely a data event.
This also makes entirely referential actions work whatever the specifics might be. If I put an aspect button on a page as an option button, when pressed, the system determines who pressed it, where and what devices are in use FOR THAT USER at the moment, and then sends sends whatever command through whatever control ports is required to make the Display that user is looking at change aspect, regardless of being IR or RS232 or IP. In a different room (or even in the same room while using an alternate TV or projector), CineTouch will send the right command for the INTENT of the user. Change out the TV next week, and no other change is required for the commands to be correct again... they travel with the definition. By the same token, change/expand a 6-DVR DirecTV system to 3 Comcast, 3 Dish, and 2 DTV in about 2 minutes... altogether. No touch panel changes either.
Incidentally, but not at all required, you could indeed configure a number of sources that aren't yet installed, allowing you to plan all the I/O and control ports up front, and mark them as unavailable, hiding them from the UI. Then one click would bring any or all online in seconds once they were ready.
John Nagy
CineTouch.com
Catching up with the news... CineTouch Progress.
We're excited to be welcoming new dealers to CineTouch, many of them as a result of our visit to the AMX NEW YORK CITY SHOWROOM in March. We were invited there by AMX to speak to well over a dozen dealers, and many of them are signed up to be dealers. Many thanks to Jamie Finnegan of AMX who made it possible, and to Mike Alpert, our dealer from Nantucket, for helping with the New York event. We'll be doing more of these.
A special shout-out to FORRESTER TECH, a dealer in Springfield, MO who joined us and trained in mid December 2009. In less than 2 months, they had INSTALLED 8 CINETOUCH SYSTEMS, and have what appears to be prospects for at least that many more in the immediate future. Major kudos for proving that the jobs are there if you know how to find them.
With each new dealer, we get more understanding and appreciation for the many variations in system design. We keep adding features and new supported devices to make YOUR job easier and more profitable.
CineTouch continues to grow and improve - in the last two months, we've added a lot to our existing support:
New Devices
IMC Movie server from REQUEST
HAI Thermostats (2-way)
HAI Security SYstems (2-way)
Ademco Security Systems (2-way)
McIntosh Blue Ray DVD RS232
Pioneer Blue Ray DVD RS232
Stewart BRIC Screen controller RS232
SIM2 Projectors RS232
Bryston AVRs RS232
Future Automation Lifts RS232
Lens Glider Sled RS232
Integra AVR via IP control
AMX VOL-3 as an accessory volume device (AXLINK)
AMX AXB-NET as an Ethernet transport for AXLINK
Color Knetics Lightshow controller RS232
MET-ECOM Door intercom and camera (IP)
NXV-300 Remote Panel controller (VNC and Web panel)
Lots of displays and DVD's on IR
Improved Support
Squeezebox 2-way
Kaliedescape 2-way
All thermostats (2-way)
Just Add Power (HDMI over Ethernet)
Sonance iPort RS232
R4 Remote (keeps getting better!)
Added 2-way port support for AXCENT3 and external RS232 boxes for more I/O
Added INTERNAL IR PICKUP support for AMX 5" 7" and 10" panels
MONTAGE images now in their own folder for convenience
hundreds of code and data improvements for functionality, speed, and reliability
New Features
"i" Series Panel Intercom and Door Cameras (MAJOR feature)
Configurator
New Release as of April, 2010
Now automatically checks for updates if over 2 weeks since last check
Improved prompts and help files
Minor bug fixes and enhancements
New Base Data for all new devices
New support for Intercom and Phone setup
Coming by MAY - Version 7.3
Telephony SIP Gateway
RADIO RA 2 (2way)
Vantage Infusion Lighting (2-way)
HAI Lighting control (2-way)
New Channel Maps and Icon sets
On-Panel channel editing
Updated FLASH client
New Touch Panel projects for more devices and channel icons
Enhanced iPhone and iPad use
Master-to-Master enhancement for better control of I/O
...and other suprizes!
John Nagy
Director, CineTouch Product Management
http://cinetouch.com
No real news, we like it a great deal and it is in use in a few CineTouch systems now, more planned soon. We find about 10% of OLD displays (3 years and older) don't like changing resolution on the HDMI port without an actual input change. Newer ones do much better, but nothing is certain until tested. We have seen the same problem with Faroudja and Runco equipment on their component inputs for years. We resolve it with macros if we have to by defining each source change to also make the display change to a different (empty) input, then change the source feed, then change the input back - and the port captures the new resolution. This isn't a JUST ADD POWER issue, it's a display and handshake issue that is more likely to be encountered with J.A.P.
Sorry to be unable yet to confirm that the cheap DELL managed switch works as well as the CISCO, the installations so far just bought the CISCO rather than experimenting, since CineTouch for sure knows how to talk to the Cisco with no issues.
The very good things are that the image degradation is slight enough to not notice except maybe on a good projector or maybe a 60" Pioneer. It's similar to DirecTV HD. You can spot artifacts on occasion, but seldom. Also the delay on the video is so small that analog sound matches well enough in every room.
Coming improvements will be welcome, and items mentioned to eventually be added including their triple transmitter, integrated power supplies, integrated component video conversion, audio management, IR and RS232 transfer... and an integrated HDMI ID multiplier. But not yet.
Meanwhile, it's a viable solution for specific situations, and reasonably priced.
The proof that it's viable is that the customers using it have not reported anything at all....
John
I recently did an install for a 3x2 HDMI Matrix using Just Add Power. As I had some time in advance of the install I played around with the units and a few different switches...
JAP mentioned they had issues with Netgear managed switches - I had one on the bench, a FS726TP - while I could get it working and switching VLANs it took some beating, and everytime I cracked it everything worked for a while, even a day, then would fail and only a full reset, disconnecting everything would get me back. There is something in the VLAN implementation that screws with this idea.
General advise - avoid JAP and Netgear Switches like the plague!
I also had a HP ProCurve 2510 - this is a sub ?200 24port switch. This worked like a charm, a single CLI command would switch a port between VLAN's, the change is instant, the JAP data exchange was quick and the receivers would drop & lock to the new stream without issue. I can strongly recommend this unit for this application.
As for the JAP product itself - it does what it says on the tin, documentation is poor, but none is really needed.
Sorry for the thread hijack!
Were these switches 100M per port or 1G? I know the J.A.P. specs say they only neeed 50-60mbps(?) and the cost difference between 24 x 1G ports versus 24 x 100meg ports is significant although the extra headroom would be nice to have for what ever the future might bring.
I've already spec'd a Cisco Catalyst 2960 with 1 gig ports for this project since I'm a loyal "Cisco" dealer which will be strictly for the video distribution but maybe if the 100meg sw's work fine I'll use that instead to make up for other losses. There doesn't appear to be anything else out there this scalable which is what sold me especially if you want more than 8 locations.
The new AMX switcher looks nice (only 8 in/outs) but that isn't available yet and with my "BRONZE" pricing it puts it out of my league unless I sell it at cost.
I think you'd need Gb as a backbone if you going to link multiple switches with many tx units
Take note that while J.A.P. will scale to even hundreds of locations, you ARE LIMITED in concurrent connections to the number of HDMI license/handshakes that the SOURCE DEVICE permits. Most appear to have 8 or 16 as their limit. Some cable boxes have been found to have ONE. That means only ONE display will connect at a time, regardless of successful switching. This is a limitation of HDMI, not of JUST ADD POWER. There's a lot of discussion including add on devices to work around this (pricey), and some tables of common sources at the JAP web site.
John (participating in the hijack... sorry)
I just got my 2 Cisco switches (one for playing and one for the job) both 2960's but 1 was the WS-C2960-24-S and the other WS-C2960-24TT-L both run the LAN Lite software but the first doesn't have uplink ports so it retails for just under $800.00 while the other has the 2 gig ports for uplink but a retail cost of $1,299.00 (i think). I'll play with both and hopefully the cheaper one will do the job equally as well since I don't need the uplinks. This is obviously still more than the Procurve or the Dell solution but I need to keep the Cisco guys happy too.
I'm pretty sure our dealers used the cheaper one... the price they mentioned was around $700-$800.
Great to hear that the HP is good too, and JAP themselves suggests the $250 DELL.
John
CineTouch will be showing the new VERSION 8 software at CEDIA...
We'll be in the ADA Booth, next door to AMX... and maybe in the AMX booth too.
Look for us... and see the new look of CineTouch V8.
Lots of changes under the hood too... including support for 100 rooms, 100 panels, and more in our new distributed master architecture that retains all the power of a central intelligence and user personalization... now practically without limits.
CineTouch will be exhibiting at the ISE show, Feb 1-3 in Amsterdam, Netherlands. This is a huge show comparable with CEDIA. All of Europe and much of Asia, Australia, Africa, and the Mideast go to this show to select product lines like we do here at CES.
Show info: http://www.iseurope.org/FX/exfx_s1.3.swf?loadFile=ise11.xml
We'll be in a combined Residential-centric area with our friends at ADA, DBOX, and others. We'll also be on display in the AMX area, near our friends at TP CONTROL.
If you are going to the show, you'll see our new Version 8 CineTouch, which will be formally released for deployment concurrent with the show. We announced it at CEDIA, and took longer than intended to get it out, but now it's even better than it was going to be.
After the Amsterdam show, we'll be visiting Belgium, Rome, Naples and looking for distributors. More countries to follow.
When we get close to release, I'll post the details of the V8 product. We're making it better looking, better running, and more flexible... and holding the price where it's been.
Here's a preview of the booth, you can see our partners in this show Feb 1-3 in Amsterdam.
Also here's a link to D-Tools' blog with a brief summary of all the participants in our shared booth and more about the show...
http://www.d-toolsblog.com/d-tools-news/dtools-joins-home-cinema-europe-partners-ise-2011/
Correction, HALLS. Here's a pic of the floor of the show. We're the cyan colored box...
We hope to meet many new dealers worldwide... see you there!
We're back from the ISE in Amsterdam... what a show! 35,000 people (is that more or less in metric?).
CineTouch was hugely well received - we were continuously busy showing the new V8 system on three touch panels in our booth area, which was three table tops in the central arch of our partner booth. We also CineTouch-automated the demo in the large concealed theater in the back of the booth.
The attached photos give an idea of how the crowd was in our area throughout the show. We have many highly qualified dealers and distributors (and hardware manufacturers) that want to do business. An exciting time.
By the way, there are many stories that we've heard about how the AMX vs Crestguys market was in Europe. From everything we heard from the people in it, AMX is well known and leading in commercial work, and way behind in residential. Just like here.
I'll have more on CineTouch V8 soon. It was well liked by the ISE audience. It should be deployable to customers in about a week after we tweak some things we saw in our demos.
Mm, didn't check out your booth. Hadn't noticed you were there. Did hear about it at the AMX booth, apparently it spelled UG-LY on the panels. At least that's what I overheard.
Good for you that it was worth your time though. Shame I didn't see it.
The slide content was edited by Blake from information supplied by CineTouch, but his comments are unsolicited observations of his own. I’m humbled by his glowing testimonial. At the link below you may chose RUN and view it more-or-less streaming, or SAVE it and view it on your desk. It’s a 4.5 megabyte file.
-removed- see following post
This is JUST the section about CineTouch and does not include the discount information about the new Packages from AMX. The entire presentation is likely to be offered online soon by AMX, and it repeats live twice on Monday April 4 at Noon and 3 Eastern time. All dealers were emailed link information.
FYI, three new hardware bundles from AMX, each including TPControl licenses, all at discount. CineTouch is offering base software to support these bundles at 65% off our dealer MSRP.
I took down the clip referred to in the prior message and now have a far better quality clip on YOUTUBE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4lrEoPROzs
Same content as above, but images you can see, text you can read, and better audio too.
CEDIA is only 2 weeks away, CineTouch will be in the ADA booth again this year, hope to see many of you at the show.
We have several announcements this year.
First, we have a joint announcement with NuVo about our new turnkey deep integration with their sources and multiroom audio systems. You'll be able to join a NuVo system with an AMX system with just one serial cable, and the AMX touch panels will be interactive with the NuVo existing wall keypads. You'll share control and have two-way feedback between the systems. Details in the press release - http://cinetouch.com/NuVo-CT.pdf
Next, another joint announcement, this one with AUTONOMIC CONTROLS. CineTouch has added complete MIRAGE Media Server support into the base CineTouch system. That means full on-panel two way support for the Autonomic systems by just clicking it on, at no additional costs. It's a great box for integrators and they will have some exciting announcements about added functions and services that will have to be "SEEN" to be believed. And the CineTouch support will be ready for it. More information is in the press release - http://cinetouch.com/Autonomic-CT.pdf
Shortly I'll have another, describing our own announcement for CineTouch Version 8.2.
This IS the place for it, a place YOU made for it.