Inherited a new system today...

vegastech

Yet another System Integrator left recently, leaving an AMX customer holding the bag. I inherited the job, which consists of an NI3100, 3 MVP8400s, 1 R2 remote, a NMS with IR, Autopatch Precis, and 6 satellite receivers, along with a theater of equipment. The system was doing absolutely nothing when I got there today, and after some careful rebooting, I was able to get the panels to start communicating (lost wifi link), and to get the 3100 serial ports to start operating the TVs. However, I can't seem to get IR to work via the NetModuleShell. I have power cycled it and even tried a different ICSNet port on the 3100, but it just won't work. I don't have the source code, and I don't have a way of getting a hold of the original programmer. What can I do to connect to the processor to see if a copy of the code was left? I tried using the com port on the back of the processor, verified the dip switches are set to 38400, but I can't seem to get the system tree to refresh. The system does not have a router installed (Huh???), only a WRT54G Linksys WAP, along with a 5 port switch. I am planning on coming back tomorrow with an actual router to see if I can connect/assign an IP, but what else can I do to connect to the processor? I tried just choosing the Axcess option in comm settings, and the toolbar went green, but I obviously couldn't refresh the online tree.

Hedberg

If the 8400s are communicating to the master through the WAP, you can too. Or, you can plug into the switch. Don't need a router, as far as I can see. Check the setup screens on the TP to extract all the IP/WIFI information that you need. You should be able to access the master's web server or connect via telnet, if it's not disabled. Or, you should be able to get an IP Netlinx studio connection running.

DHawthorne

If there is not router, everything would have to have a static IP ... it's a matter of checking what all those are, and setting your computer IP to an unused IP (or your best guess as to unused if you can't get them all). I would still put a router in, unless you unearth one elsewhere in the house ... it may be they were just using that 5-port switch to "split" a single line from the house network to all the equipment.

But the fact you can't get an online tree connected via the serial port is troubling. There is something else fishy going on here. You should always be able to connect that way ... unless the system is entirely locked up. I'd try again with the program disabled (DIP switch 1).

The IR card probably never had an address assigned and is using the dynamic range. If the original programmer used that in the program, it would explain it ... the dynamic address just changed.

I would seriously consider biting the bullet here and starting from scratch. Even if you can retrieve the existing program, it sounds to me like it is going to be a complete nightmare trying to figure out what the original programmer was doing and how. The client will complain about the cost. But, if the options are paying up, or it never quite being right, it's not that rough of a decision. At least they already paid for the equipment.

John Gonzales

You can telnet into a Touchpanel and type the command "get connection". That will show you the Master's IP address, system number, etc.

Once you have the IP address of the master you can try connecting using NS3 over TCP/IP.

EDIT:
Once you're connected to the master in NS3 you can see if you can extract the source code (Tools->File Transfer->Receive).

-John

John Gonzales

If you're looking for an unused address on the network, I like to use a tool called AngyIP Scanner (http://www.angryip.org/w/Download) to map the network.

-John

vegastech

Yes, I do have AngryIP scanner. I tried running that while connected to the switch last night, but I didn't set a static IP on my computer. That's why I couldn't see anything....So this evening I will do the following, and tell me if I'm on the right track:

Set static IP on my computer, connect to network switch.
If I open the protected setup of the 8400, can I see the master's IP there like I can on a CV7?
Connect via TCP to the master (hopefully there is no password)
Refresh network tree, see if I can locate the NMS.

The NMS is connected via ICSNet. If I see it under the network tree, (since I've never used an ICSNet device before) can I make changes to it? How do I do that?

I would like to reprogram the system since the original programmer used power toggles to serially control the tvs...grrrrr....they go out of sync A LOT. Also, the background system is not tied into the AMX processor in any way, shape, or form. MZC88 system with MODE keypads. The Lutron system only has 3 total lighting scenes that toggle (also lame). Quite a bit of work to do, but as I am leaving on vacation Friday, I don't have much time, and I just want to get their IR working for the next few weeks until I can go back. Thanks everyone for any additional tips you may have!

vegastech

Connected, and working!

So I was able to connect via IP after all: I verified the IP of the master via the 8400, set a static for my pc, and viola, connected. I was able to download the src file as well as the various include files, so I can see (what I think) is going on. Is there any way to download the IR files associated with the project? I tried doing the Tools-File Transfer-Receive-IR file approach, but the processor said it didn't have any files of that type listed. I'm pretty sure I'm out of luck on that front. However, seeing as the plasma displays are using power toggles without even so much as a variable to track their state, I don't think I'm missing out on much.

DHawthorne

vegastech wrote: »

So I was able to connect via IP after all: I verified the IP of the master via the 8400, set a static for my pc, and viola, connected. I was able to download the src file as well as the various include files, so I can see (what I think) is going on. Is there any way to download the IR files associated with the project? I tried doing the Tools-File Transfer-Receive-IR file approach, but the processor said it didn't have any files of that type listed. I'm pretty sure I'm out of luck on that front. However, seeing as the plasma displays are using power toggles without even so much as a variable to track their state, I don't think I'm missing out on much.

If you FTP to the master, you will see the IR files in the main user-doc folder. They are named according to the port they were loaded to (irfile01, etc.). These aren't the IREdit files, though, they don't open, so they are probably raw IR data. You won't get channel info, but you could replace the IR if needed.

vegastech

Slowly working toward a goal...

Dave,

I was able to use the file transfer - receive command on my home NI-700 to receive the IR file I loaded onto it by using the address 5001:3:0, and was then able to open the file. Should this also be possible with the system I am trying to work on, or did I just get lucky because my IR file was an IRL file?

I thought I would try my luck with FileZilla at home, and I connected and authenticated successfully on port 22, and I did see the IR file you refer to - mine says irfile03, which matches your previous statement. I can't, however connect on port 21. I get a "failed to retrieve directory listing" error.

vining

vegastech wrote: »

Dave,

I was able to use the file transfer - receive command on my home NI-700 to receive the IR file I loaded onto it by using the address 5001:3:0, and was then able to open the file. Should this also be possible with the system I am trying to work on, or did I just get lucky because my IR file was an IRL file?

I thought I would try my luck with FileZilla at home, and I connected and authenticated successfully on port 22, and I did see the IR file you refer to - mine says irfile03, which matches your previous statement. I can't, however connect on port 21. I get a "failed to retrieve directory listing" error.

I always get that error trying to connect with Filezilla but it did work a few years ago. I don't know which upgrade broke it Filezilla's or the master's. I just use IE open w/ ftp://user@IP_address, log in then go to IE> Page > Open FTP site in IE, log in again. Then I can just copy, paste or delete the file the old fashion way. Never even bothered to try an figure out what when wrong w/ Filezilla.

DHawthorne

vegastech wrote: »

Dave,

I was able to use the file transfer - receive command on my home NI-700 to receive the IR file I loaded onto it by using the address 5001:3:0, and was then able to open the file. Should this also be possible with the system I am trying to work on, or did I just get lucky because my IR file was an IRL file?

I thought I would try my luck with FileZilla at home, and I connected and authenticated successfully on port 22, and I did see the IR file you refer to - mine says irfile03, which matches your previous statement. I can't, however connect on port 21. I get a "failed to retrieve directory listing" error.

I'm not really sure. Last time I tried it, I couldn't open the file transferred that way. I only tried it once ... I tend to hang on to files, no matter how old, and I haven't been in the position of needing to deal with someone else project that way. So I have my originals at hand (mostly). I'd say give it a try, you have nothing to lose.

Port 21 is the standard FTP port. You can't change it on a NetLinx master, only turn it on or off. Port 22 is SSH. If you connected on port 22, it had to be forwarded somewhere along the line, or something very fishy is going on.

To get Filezilla to work, you have to manually set the server type on the advanced tab to DOS. The automatic server type detection stopped working when Vista was released (I assume it still works in XP). I sent this as a bug to the Filezilla development team, but they have apparently not done anything about it. It works fine, however, set to DOS.

CT-Dallas

I too have had problems with filezilla. I switched to coreftp - another free utility. This one connects to masters without issue.

vining

DHawthorne wrote:

To get Filezilla to work, you have to manually set the server type on the advanced tab to DOS. The automatic server type detection stopped working when Vista was released (I assume it still works in XP). I sent this as a bug to the Filezilla development team, but they have apparently not done anything about it. It works fine, however, set to DOS.

Thanks, you fixed it for me! Of course it took for ever to locate the advanced tab you mentioined but for any one else who uses it, it's under: file>site manager. Configure your general tab settings and then go to the advanced tab. I never use the site manager so I kept passing by it when looking for that advanced tab.

FYI, I'm running XP and it's been broken for use with the masters since about the time Vista was released, I suppose. Never would a thunk these events were related.

John Nagy

Filezilla and NetLinx Fix

To make Filezilla work flawlessly with NetLinx, on the PATH tab for the connection, enter a forward slash / in the REMOTE connection entry. This tells it where to start to get files.

This situation exists for XP, Win2000, Vista, 7, Win98.... it started about 2 years ago in FILEZILLA. Earlier versions did not require this. It's more about how the NETLINX behaves in a session; changing to DOS accomplishes the same, probably.

The other thing you want to do is on the ADVANCED tab -
Check the box for LIMIT SIMULTANEOUS CONNECTIONS and see that it is set to "1"

Default action of the tool (and browsers) is to try to open as many connections to the target as you have files in the transfer queue, for maximum throughput. The NetLinx FTP server can't handle that and shuts down, reporting a "421 - connections exceeded" error and you are done until it recovers. Which can take 2-10 minutes to get over itself, and often -never-, blocking FTP access from ANYWHERE until there's a reboot of the NetLinx. Not ideal. SO, set the limit to 1 and you never have the problem. Avoid multiple FTP connections from different computers for the same reason.

Last but not least, I see many cheap or older routers that appear to block FTP even though all the port forwarding is right. Most times you get a FAILED TO GET LIST type or outright connection refused. In Filezilla, in the ADVANCED tab, find the connection type buttons: AUTO is usually fine, but switch to PASSIVE and/or ACTIVE and try again. One of these will usually work fine - leave that as your setting for that location.

Filezilla, with these settings, is the most stable FTP I've found for NetLinx, I used to prefer CUTE FTP and have tried a dozen or more.

John Nagy

In-NetLinx IR files

The IR files in the FTP-accessible files in the NetLinx arise when you load an IRL into a bank. They store the metadata that is part of the IRL, and their only function is to provide that part of the IRL back to you when and if you extract/download the IRL from the IR bank. If you delete the FILE part, the IR still works but can't be extracted. You can't affect the loaded IR portion in the bank by changing the IR file in the FTP-files area in the NetLinx. You can't download the IR files from the FTP area without forcing your FTP client to BINARY mode. The content of the files fools the automatic mode into switching to ASCII mode, which breaks the content, and some FTP clients detect the data loss and stop the transfer, but aren't smart enough to switch to BINARY on their own. That said, there is little benefit to be had by downloading the IR file artifact - it is useless except to complete the IR in the bank upon an IRL extraction using IREDIT.