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Universal PSX-2 iPod Dock

bwestlakebwestlake Posts: 82
in AMX Technical Discussion
Universal has an iPod dock that has me excited but frustrated. The dock has a great GUI through component video and it has IP connectivity. It also has some great navigational capabilities. The frustrating part is that Universal won't release the protocol unless a programmer commits the time to create a module to sell (or give away.) They say that it will take 2-3 man-months of time to write the module. Controlworks wrote a Bleeptron PSX-2 module that they sell for $350. I wrote some usable code for the DLO Homedock Pro and have been using it for a couple of years but I can no longer find them to buy. Philips bought DLO but nobody at Philips knows anything about them.

Has anyone done anything with the PSX-2? Would anyone want to write a module? I know that I wouldn't have the time right now and I'm not that experienced at IP communications. I would be happy to let an interested programmer know who to talk with at Universal.

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    yuriyuri Posts: 861
    give me a psx-2 ipod dock and i'll program it :)
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    bwestlakebwestlake Posts: 82
    Thanks Yuri. Anyone else?
    yuri wrote: »
    give me a psx-2 ipod dock and i'll program it :)

    I appreciate your reply. I was surprised that you were the only one. The PSX-2 is the best potential iPod solution for integration that I have seen. IP communications, great GUI, component video, and great search capabilities. iPort doesn't have a dock that will do GUI and serial together. Does anyone have iPod dock options that I'm not aware of?
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    Jimweir192Jimweir192 Posts: 502
    I had a long enquiry with Universal about this last year, the end result of which was they wouldn't release the protocol under any circumstances. If I recall the product was pretty new at the time, or even not shipping.

    At the time I had a client willing to pay the programming time, but that is no longer the case, so unless the protocol is freely available or another client with deep pockets comes along...

    The iPort situation is frustrating as they make a great dock for control, and now also have a great on-screen GUI - why the 2 aren't available on the same device is beyond me. I always thought that iPort was ahead of the curve on this sort of thing.

    I've looked at many docks in the past and nothing has ever been available that combined the 2 elements well.

    I'm sure in time things will come together with iPort and other manufacturers.
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    yuriyuri Posts: 861
    Jimweir192 wrote: »
    I had a long enquiry with Universal about this last year, the end result of which was they wouldn't release the protocol under any circumstances. If I recall the product was pretty new at the time, or even not shipping.

    At the time I had a client willing to pay the programming time, but that is no longer the case, so unless the protocol is freely available or another client with deep pockets comes along...

    The iPort situation is frustrating as they make a great dock for control, and now also have a great on-screen GUI - why the 2 aren't available on the same device is beyond me. I always thought that iPort was ahead of the curve on this sort of thing.

    I've looked at many docks in the past and nothing has ever been available that combined the 2 elements well.

    I'm sure in time things will come together with iPort and other manufacturers.

    I can upgrade my FS-22 with some sort of new mainboard to enable a video GUI :)
    P.S. If you can get a hold of the protocol i would seriously be interested in writing some sort of module :)
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    jjamesjjames Posts: 2,908
    FYI - some Crestr0n programmers / company has a two-way module for the PSX-2.

    Replace the "0" with an "o" in the link. This blocking of that word is becoming EXTREMELY annoying.

    http://www.cepro.com/article/how_to_integrate_crestr0n_with_urcs_psx-2_ipod_dock/

    Short of getting the protocol from URC, one could get it all rigged up and having it talk to the URC remote and plugging the PSX-2 into a hub, and then sniff the protocol. I too would be VERY interested in the protocol if found.
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    bwestlakebwestlake Posts: 82
    PSX-2 protocol
    Jimweir192 wrote: »
    I had a long enquiry with Universal about this last year, the end result of which was they wouldn't release the protocol under any circumstances. If I recall the product was pretty new at the time, or even not shipping.

    Universal said that they made the protocol available to Controlworks because they committed the time to create a complete module. They said that they would do the same thing for an AMX programmer that would commit. They would also provide the GUI graphics files, a personal engineering contact and any other information that would help a programmer. They don't want to freely distribute the protocol because they want to support a programmer who makes the commitment and give him/her the opportunity to get compensated for the effort. Who knows, Yuri, they may even throw in a PSX-2 for testing purposes.
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    jjamesjjames Posts: 2,908
    Here's my take: I think it's ridiculous how much ControlWorks charges for their module. If I were to get the protocol, I'd probably charge a MAXIMUM of $100, and probably much, much less (probably even free) if I wrote it on my own time and not the company's.

    I know we'd be hesitant to buy a pricey module, hoping someone else's code is good enough (i.e. Autonomic's Apple TV module) . . . we'd probably buy it once just to sniff the protocol and write our own module.
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    the8thstthe8thst Posts: 470
    jjames wrote: »
    Here's my take: I think it's ridiculous how much ControlWorks charges for their module. If I were to get the protocol, I'd probably charge a MAXIMUM of $100, and probably much, much less (probably even free) if I wrote it on my own time and not the company's.

    I know we'd be hesitant to buy a pricey module, hoping someone else's code is good enough (i.e. Autonomic's Apple TV module) . . . we'd probably buy it once just to sniff the protocol and write our own module.

    How can you defend the pricing for TPcontrol and then write this about controlworks (which is a small independent company that provides the unencrypted code for the module) charging much less for a module?

    Apparently it is OK to charge an astronomical price as long as you are officially partnered up with AMX?
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    viningvining Posts: 4,368
    the8thst wrote: »
    How can you defend the pricing for TPcontrol and then write this about controlworks (which is a small independent company that provides the unencrypted code for the module) charging much less for a module?

    Apparently it is OK to charge an astronomical price as long as you are officially partnered up with AMX?

    I don't think it's fair to compare the cost of the TPC app which will turn any iPhone/iTouch/iPad into a full functioning AMX touch panel to a simply device module. After all a module is a module that we all can write but the TPC app is something quite different. As far as the TPC cost I still say that's driven by AMX and TPC if they were truly on there own would have charged much less. I personally have complete faith in the free market and folks can charge what ever they see fit for the fruits of their labor and as comsumers we can see fit to buy it or not. It's a beautiful system that works great as long the gov keeps their grubby little hands and regulations away from it. Ah, but that's too much to ask for.
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    bwestlakebwestlake Posts: 82
    PSX-2 Cost
    vining wrote: »
    I don't think it's fair to compare the cost of the TPC app which will turn any iPhone/iTouch/iPad into a full functioning AMX touch panel to a simply device module.

    This is true but there is a much larger potential customer base for the TPC app than there is for the PSX-2 app. (Oops I mean module)
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    viningvining Posts: 4,368
    bwestlake wrote: »
    This is true but there is a much larger potential customer base for the TPC app than there is for the PSX-2 app. (Oops I mean module)
    The customer base is actually the same IMHO (AMX dealers/customers) however the # of installs per job is different since one module will likely handle any and all docks installed and the TPC app needs a licnese for ech device that will use it.

    Of course more jobs will likely get the TPC app since some folks don't use these docks and others will use docks made by other mannfacturers so yes TPC should have the edge in sales but we're not talking a huge diffrerence.
    Maybe hundreds vs thousands not 10's of thousands vs millions. Either case there's the portential that neither company will recoup their expense in development and that's the risk they take for a potential reward.
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    jjamesjjames Posts: 2,908
    Not to derail . . . but over the weekend I went up to our office to grab a PSX-2 and started playing around with it. Needless to say I was up until 4am Sunday, grabbed lunch around 2pm, and haven't slept or eaten since.

    So far, this is what I can do with it....
    * Control it (i.e. all the transports)
    * Modify the jukebox
    * Query play status, iPod information, track info, EQ info, etc.
    * Query the databases (making it browsable)

    Regardless if someone beats me to the punch or has done more . . . I'm happy that I've gotten this far!

    I've yet to do any Netlinx programming to parse the responses (both unsolicited and solicited) or control it (all of my testing has done via a PC app I wrote), but by looking at the incoming information - it won't be a problem. I did make contact with URC over the weekend (and actually got a response.) Hopefully I'll get the protocol - otherwise I could see it taking a wee bit more longer than I had hoped.

    Stay tuned.
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    DHawthorneDHawthorne Posts: 4,584
    This is one of those cases where it is cheaper, easier to implement, and more reliable to just use another dock than to develop a module (for me, that is). I only use the PSX when using a Universal for the remote. Would I pay a hundred dollars or more for someone else's work? If it wasn't licensed per job, probably. It would be a nice tool to add to the toolbox. But a hundred or more per job ... well, then I'll probably keep to what I have been doing ans sell an iPort, which I don't have to pay for programming at all for.
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    rhursonrhurson Posts: 5
    I have a customer wanting the psx-2. Has there been a module created to control this yet??
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    youstrayoustra Posts: 135
    PSX-2 iPod Module/Protocol Release

    I'm assuming no one's gotten a module cooking. Are there any commercial sources? Controlworks is just for Cres, right? I don't mind paying....

    So...2 requests here:
    1) Anyone have a solution/suggestion?

    2) If you're as irritated as me, let's all call URC and make some noise. I suggest we do it this week.

    Phone: 1(800) 901-0800

    Email: http://www.urccontrolroom.com/support.php

    Forum: http://www.urccontrolroom.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2818
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    jjamesjjames Posts: 2,908
    There is a module in production at the moment; expect to see it in full swing by the beginning of the New Year.
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    the8thstthe8thst Posts: 470
    jjames wrote: »
    There is a module in production at the moment; expect to see it in full swing by the beginning of the New Year.

    You beat me to it. I was going to send him in your direction. I hope the testing is going well for you.
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    jjamesjjames Posts: 2,908
    Hit a small road block since moving. I no longer have access to my plethora of touch panels or dock; on the upside, someone is going to be loaning me an 8400 for a little bit and I plan on buying my own dock so I can try and wrap it up in a couple of weeks.
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    kholmkholm Posts: 6
    Did anyone ever get a module for this put together?
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    jjamesjjames Posts: 2,908
    After giving up on the module because of it's complete lack of decent capabilities (i.e. it sends you the image in chunked bytes, and you have to write the image somewhere to serve it up to the touch panels instead of it being hosted on the dock itself), and some other nuances, it's an inferior device compared to the Sonance iPort FS-23. The FS-23 has a module written by AMX and works quite well. I'm thinking about going back and re-writing the module I have 80% finished - possibly in Duet.

    I suggest ditching the PSX-2 and getting an iPort.
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