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Can't we all just get along?
Spire_Jeff
Posts: 1,917
I did not want to hijack the thread that broke this camel's back, but I have seen this going on for quite some time now and I have had enough. I remember a time when I would check this forum multiple times a week for years on end. About a year or so ago, I stopped participating on a regular basis. It is not because I was too busy, because the couple of minutes checking this forum often led to new insights, revelations, or reinforcement of occasionally used coding tricks and this is/was valuable to me. The reason I stopped was the vibe I was getting.
More often than not, I would close the forum feeling frustrated, confused or exhausted. I made a conscious decision that visiting the forums was a detriment, not a benefit, so I eased off. I would still check in from time to time and see the same childish bickering and the constant attempts to belittle and insult others. To be fair, it seems to me that the majority of people on this forum were ignoring it and carrying on with business as normal with the hopes that it would die down. It apparently has not.
I hope that those involved are able to look in the mirror and realize what part they play in this vicious cycle. I don't mind a good debate and I don't mind pointing out that a product or company is lacking in certain areas, but at some point, the discussion devolves from a fruitful endeavor into a waste of time and effort with both sides unwilling to budge and unable prosper from the situation. I am simply asking that we try to act like adults and when a discussion breaks down, just agree to disagree and move on. If you are not able to approach the situation from a different perspective or you find yourself repeating the same argument over and over, maybe it is time to move on. Nobody appreciates a temper-tantrum that seemingly has no end. I tend to picture two siblings in the backseat on a 5 hour car trip (before they had mobile game consoles, portable DVD players, iWhatevers, ...) arguing about who is in who's space and who touched who first.
Just remember you catch more flies with a bug zapper than you do with chopsticks (unless you are a ninja master). Also, don't throw AMX Rocks in a glass house, because the glass is shatter proof and you might pull a muscle throwing something that heavy (you are a programmer and physical activity is dangerous). Lastly, don't cry over spilled milk, cry over the laptop that was ruined by the milk you spilled.
This will be my only post on this matter and I hope that we can all look at ourselves and make an attempt to be better. If you don't have anything nice to say, say it once and then move on. We don't want people bottling up their emotions, we just don't need them to be constantly spewing in an uncontrolled fashion. This is a forum that relates to control after all. That concludes the uplifting cliche portion of my post
Jeff
More often than not, I would close the forum feeling frustrated, confused or exhausted. I made a conscious decision that visiting the forums was a detriment, not a benefit, so I eased off. I would still check in from time to time and see the same childish bickering and the constant attempts to belittle and insult others. To be fair, it seems to me that the majority of people on this forum were ignoring it and carrying on with business as normal with the hopes that it would die down. It apparently has not.
I hope that those involved are able to look in the mirror and realize what part they play in this vicious cycle. I don't mind a good debate and I don't mind pointing out that a product or company is lacking in certain areas, but at some point, the discussion devolves from a fruitful endeavor into a waste of time and effort with both sides unwilling to budge and unable prosper from the situation. I am simply asking that we try to act like adults and when a discussion breaks down, just agree to disagree and move on. If you are not able to approach the situation from a different perspective or you find yourself repeating the same argument over and over, maybe it is time to move on. Nobody appreciates a temper-tantrum that seemingly has no end. I tend to picture two siblings in the backseat on a 5 hour car trip (before they had mobile game consoles, portable DVD players, iWhatevers, ...) arguing about who is in who's space and who touched who first.
Just remember you catch more flies with a bug zapper than you do with chopsticks (unless you are a ninja master). Also, don't throw AMX Rocks in a glass house, because the glass is shatter proof and you might pull a muscle throwing something that heavy (you are a programmer and physical activity is dangerous). Lastly, don't cry over spilled milk, cry over the laptop that was ruined by the milk you spilled.
This will be my only post on this matter and I hope that we can all look at ourselves and make an attempt to be better. If you don't have anything nice to say, say it once and then move on. We don't want people bottling up their emotions, we just don't need them to be constantly spewing in an uncontrolled fashion. This is a forum that relates to control after all. That concludes the uplifting cliche portion of my post
Jeff
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the boards were great until October of 2009.
I'm guessing your post is directed at me or at least the feud I'm in, but I'm sorry that I don't care for arrogant spammers. The board was awesome prior to people wanting to use this as an alternative to Craigslist and before the also do-it-yourselfers / end-users had to come here because tech support is a paid service.
To carry on with your cliches: "Accept what is - don't judge as good or bad." and "Don't judge until you've walked a mile in his shoes."
Overall, good post, I'd hit the like button. Hope you'll come around more - your posts are typically quite informative.
OMG great line
Like++
The little star in the lower left corner.
I posted something similar to the below elsewhere, but I think it is on point here so I'm moving and editing it.
Much of the nastiness has been due to a crusade by a few to prevent product suppliers from posting in the forums.
Third party products and services that are specifically addressing the AMX community are absolutely critical to the success of AMX and AMX professionals. To imagine that discussion of such things has no place in a forum dedicated to the use and development of AMX systems is... counter to the purpose of the forum.
Each of the respected contributors here has made a career decision to make AMX part of their professional life. They are applauded when they discuss what they do. Yet everyone who has made a decision to go further and use that dedication to create a product of use to other AMX-minded professionals is treated like a leper, a leech if they talk about it here, and major abuse flows to anyone daring to announce such things. I think this attitude is not universal, but a very few have made it their life decision to be making decisions for others, and they have made this a much larger issue. I have no doubt that their zeal is sincere, and that they truly believe their insight is flawless and that their judgment must be enforced to protect the less bold.
Who here thinks it is important to prevent the discussion of AMX-centric products? Or if products can be mentioned, who thinks they are best discussed by those who don't know much about them? I got involved here initially when an AMX employee spread ignorant and derogatory false "facts" about our product that could have seriously damaged our company.
Clearly, the sticking point is where does the discussion turn into promotion, and where does promotion turn into relentless advertising to a captive audience, and at what point in that spectrum does THAT become too much to stomach.
But what if it were confined to a place where that's what you know you'll find there?
There ought to be a place in an AMX forum for products and services to be discussed by those who offer them. If identifying them by thread is not segregation enough, a sub forum is probably a good thing to try. The same area could hold job postings and help available postings for AMX-trained people. How about AMX-centric events? I'm not sure I would encourage a FOR SALE or WANTED section.
If there were a welcoming attitude and a place to discuss products without constant abuse for having dared to try to support AMX, I'd think you'd get more vendors interested in better support for AMX with better avenues for issues and answers. Look at the TPControl area for example. It would benefit everyone to actually solicit vendors to keep such a section current.
While a sub forum for DIY and total beginners would remove them from sight, it won't help them much to be isolated... I'm not sure what the best thing there is.
Two points: first, they were not false facts - your graphics are very lame and do look like a revisit to the 1980s video games. Second, while you acknowledge people often get tired of companies, such as yourself, posting non-stop, you propose a section for basically you and other companies to post Craiglist type ads, I'm confused.
Also, please keep in mind that GSLogic, who offers better services than you, was here many years before you felt the "need" to defend your junk, and never once did he dedicate a thread to himself like you have. This show your complete lack of ability to be even part of such a forum like this. I LOVED the forums prior to you joining, it was great. Now its a total drag just seeing your name.
Ok Jeff.. you got me. I am the Ninja Master Programmer. But.. how did you know i can do all that (Zap a fly, spill the milk and trying to avoid physical activity by doing all the things previously mentioned AT THE SAME TIME)??
And yes, i have substitute the chopsticks with a bug zapper b/c i pulled a muscle by using them
sorry for the off topic post but i wanted to change the mood a little....
Kostas
I think the biggest issue might be that we tend to get all personal, and that results in flame wars. It's not nearly as bad as I've seen on other forums though.
I like this forum a lot because it's helped me out more than tech support. Often finding solutions to my problems in posts that date years back. In a lot of other occasions I've gotten advice from people who've been doing this for years and it's helped me out quite a lot.
So to be fair this forum has been quite helpful and I'd say my opinion of it leans to the positive side.