Lutron RadioRa II and QS modules

I've got my first RadioRa 2 integration to work with and a full QS system coming up. I was wondering if there was a module kicking around that I could start with.

I see that in the AMX 'Third Party Devices' area there is a duet module for RadioRa 2.

I'd rather a module that isn't DUET, is open for me to edit as needed, and isn't programmed by AMX.

After trolling around the message board for awhile I don't see anything that's for either of these systems.

Thank you,

Jimi

Comments

  • Spire_JeffSpire_Jeff Formerly Caffeinated Programmer Posts: 1,917
    I don't have a module to share at this time, but I can tell you that the RA2 module does not work with QS. I can also tell you that in my opinion, QS is not ready for prime-time (from a lighting programming perspective). It has a lot of potential, but it is also missing a lot of functionality that is available in Illumination. The QS programming interface is buggy as all get out (in my experience thus far). The QS protocol document is available and not overly difficult (I think I got it by calling Lutron tech support). The only gotcha I have found so far is the LED feedback for system keypads is x-80 = button number, for phantom keypads, it is x-2000 = button number.

    Jeff
  • rfletcherrfletcher Junior Member Posts: 217
    I don't have a module to share, but I can offer a few tips and gotchas from the two QS installs I've done thus far:

    1. If you want to individually control lighting zones on a Grafik Eye QS you have to set integration IDs for every zone you wish to control in addition to assigning one to the unit itself, and (at least for me) the integration protocol manual didn't make it immediately obvious how to do this. It's action #4 on the #INTEGRATIONID command.

    2. Unless they've fixed this in a newer firmware version than I had, don't bother with zone level feedback if you provide the ability to adjust each zone independently, as it doesn't give you level feedback often enough for the ramp to look like a ramp. (you usually only get one or two intermediate step between 0 and 100 percent)

    3. I've not been able to work out how to control the Sivoia QS shades directly from the 232 interface, as opposed to linking them to a shade control bank on a GrafikEye QS. I didn't have a lot of time to play with this however, as only one of those installs had shades and we didn't supply them, so I only got to try while I was in the field commissioning the system.

    -Ryan
  • sphere27sphere27 Junior Member Posts: 40
    Thanks for the hints. Have either of you used the AMX RadioRa 2 module. I'm trying to figure out if I need to bite the bullet and start building a module of my own.

    rfletcher wrote: »
    I don't have a module to share, but I can offer a few tips and gotchas from the two QS installs I've done thus far:

    1. If you want to individually control lighting zones on a Grafik Eye QS you have to set integration IDs for every zone you wish to control in addition to assigning one to the unit itself, and (at least for me) the integration protocol manual didn't make it immediately obvious how to do this. It's action #4 on the #INTEGRATIONID command.

    I just took over a job that communicated with Grafic Eye QS through a QS interface box. As far as I could tell there was no integration ID set for each Graphic Eye unit and the INTEGRATIONID used in the cmds was the serial number of the box. I was able to hit any of the buttons that were programmed on the unit by just triggering them with that ID. Are you saying that there's a way to set the ID of each load and hit them directly?
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,348
    The programming for the RA2, QS & Homeworks QS is for the most part identical and appears to only differ on the system level (Phantom buttons, processor commands) while the seeTouch keypads and Maestro dimmer addressing, syntax and feedback looks to be the same.

    I did a system last year which only had lighting control in the theater so we used a small RA2 system for which I wrote a module with the expectation that when I do my 1st QS system I'd be well on my way to completing a module for that. Looking at the Lutron Integratoin Protocol, rev H, 20 October 2011 I see no reason to think that has changed and one module should be able to handle a RA2 or HomeWorks QS system if written to do so otherwise you could create two seperate modules with only minor changes between the two to adjust for the system level differences. Obviously the AMX module wasn't written to allow for control of both.

    If you want you can post or PM me your email and I'll send you the RA2 module I wrote last year. It works fine for RA2 but keep in mind that it's incomplete and was really intended to be the start of a QS module since I rarely do RA. It will either save you time or thoroughly confuse you but it "might" be better than starting from scratch and depending on what you're doing you might not have to do anything at all.
  • DHawthorneDHawthorne Junior Member Posts: 4,584
    The programming tool supplied by Lutron for RA2 and QS is very similar, but I think the underlying mechanics (ie., protocol) differ. And I have to say, the software is the absolute pits. Whey they didn't model it on Illumination, I have no idea. I also have to agree QS is not ready for prime time ... I have had jobs where I had to send the file to Lutron to be repaired just so the system would be functional. But they are aware of that much; after all, it's still beta.

    That said, the protocol must be available (I haven't had a chance to look, been absolutely swamped the end of this year). Savant has working profiles for it, and they are notorious for working directly from spec and not the actual product.
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,348
    I was going to upload the Integration file but it's too big. The new Lutron Integration Protocol pdf rev H, covers RA2, Stanza, Quantum, HomeWorks QS and QS Standalone and they all follow the same basic syntax format with obvious differences at the system (processor) level.

    If you have the HomeWorks QS Design tool you can find the pdf by going to the "reports" tab and select "integration". On that pop up there's a link in green on the top left of the window. I haven't been able to find where they keep it in the Lutron directory. I'm running HomeWorks QS 2.1.0 which is the newest beta available online.

    I haven't used QS yet except for the road show they held early last summer and it definitely wasn't ready for prime time then. It has promise but I too think leaving the Illumination/P5 system was a mistake but I do see the benefit to making everything similar and if you ask me if the system is going to be under 200 devices and you have AMX to do the cool stuff then HomeWorks itself doesn't make sense anymore, especially considering the cost of the dimmers which are basically identical as far as we're concerned except for the cost. RA2 QS versions are 2/3rds the cost of HomeWorks QS Maestro's. That can add up big time with a 100+ devices since these aren't cheap.
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,348
    Here's the current Lutron Integration protocol for anyone interested:

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/50635535/IntegrationInfo%2Crev%20H.pdf
  • rfletcherrfletcher Junior Member Posts: 217
    sphere27 wrote: »
    Thanks for the hints. Have either of you used the AMX RadioRa 2 module. I'm trying to figure out if I need to bite the bullet and start building a module of my own.




    I just took over a job that communicated with Grafic Eye QS through a QS interface box. As far as I could tell there was no integration ID set for each Graphic Eye unit and the INTEGRATIONID used in the cmds was the serial number of the box. I was able to hit any of the buttons that were programmed on the unit by just triggering them with that ID. Are you saying that there's a way to set the ID of each load and hit them directly?

    Yes, you can set an integrationid for each load and use it to ramp the load up and down, or set the load to a specific level.

    The command is #INTEGRATIONID,4,<unitSerialNumber>,<loadNumber>,<integrationID>,$0D,$0A

    Then you can use the #OUTPUT commands described in the integrators guide to control the zone directly.

    -Ryan
  • RicardoSiqueiraRicardoSiqueira Junior Member Posts: 373
    Any ideas when a QS module will be available with proper controls and LED feedback. I love the way Homeworks Interactive works with AMX. It is one of our best integration: LED feedback, scenes, everything. Hopefully, AMX and Lutron will put their heads together and come up with a decent module for Lutron QS. Most of my new projects are jumping on QS but without a good module, proper integration is questionable. I wonder why Lutron decided to take such an aggressive path. Has anybody been able to fully integrate with QS yet? Any sample modules? Any commercial modules?
  • DHawthorneDHawthorne Junior Member Posts: 4,584
    I just talked to Lutron about this, and they are very unhappy with AMX. Apparently, it's part of their partner agreement that AMX provide control modules for this stuff.

    The new protocol seems to cover all the latest generation Lutron equipment, but it's not particularly arcane. I am probably going to roll my own module, because I doubt anything AMX is going to produce will do what I want/need it to do. I'm trying to work out the best way to handle all the possibilities though; tracking every possible device in a system seems too much, especially when nine times out of then, I only need one virtual KP on my touch panel. I do think, however, that parsing the XML from the Lutron processor is a must. It's too much to ask that every time the lighting changes, you have to change your panels or your program too.
  • John NagyJohn Nagy CineTouch Product Manager Posts: 1,498
    DHawthorne wrote: »
    It's too much to ask that every time the lighting changes, you have to change your panels or your program too.

    Yep. Think in terms of how you can write your program to use data in a file you can put on the NetLinx. Change the data to change the behavior, instead of the program.
  • DHawthorneDHawthorne Junior Member Posts: 4,584
    What I did with Illumination was to parse the actual XML that the Lutron utility generates. I'll just adapt that to the new schema. The QS will let you pull the XML directly from the processor ... but I don't think I'll go that far.

    Of course the real problem is now I need the time to get this done ...
  • RicardoSiqueiraRicardoSiqueira Junior Member Posts: 373
    As AMX just released their Lutron QS module, I wonder if anyone will attempt to modify the AMX UI or create a new one to simplify things. The problem I am having with the just released module is that they tie up the example with code driven pages and pop-up pages and break it in multiple sections making it very difficult to reuse. With Lutron Illumination I used the AMX Comm module with a very simple UI module from sample code shared here in this Forum. I am looking for something easy to keep track of the LED feedback or in QS button state. * See attached .axi file I used in one of my projects. If anyone already have a similar approach for QS or is planning to do one, please let me know. Any sample code will be well appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Ricardo
  • DHawthorneDHawthorne Junior Member Posts: 4,584
    I just took a look at that module, and I almost wonder why they even bothered. You have to enter every device address manually, and I don't see any way to create keypad screens except one for each keypad in use (though I may be wrong about that, I only looked at it quickly). There is a ton of gobblegook in there that was clearly meant to conform to an API, and not any real-world usage. And it's Duet, to boot.

    In short, it's a hardly more than a communications wrapper, and you could as easily just send raw strings to the device and trap the feedback yourself. I didn't really expect much more, to be honest, but it's still disappointing.

    Meanwhile, my rework of my workhorse HWI module is still delayed as I scramble to get the rest of my project up and running. No time savings here, I'm afraid.
  • RicardoSiqueiraRicardoSiqueira Junior Member Posts: 373
    Yes. I am right now connected with a NI-700, QS processor and iPad with TPC in a friend’s house trying to evaluate the module usage. I didn't make any changes to the AMX code other than inserting my own button addresses and IP address. It works via IP, it controls either a physical keypad, dimmer or a phantom. Like DHawthorne said, you have to enter every single button address manually. So in large projects this will be a huge list. The module code is wrapped up with their own pages and API, making it very difficult to port to a real project without major redoing. The biggest problem here is the LED/Button feedback. It looks like it is dynamically tracked. It only works when you initiate the change. In the previous Lutron Homeworks the 0 and 1 LED positions would keep track of the current state of the LEDs so we could easily assign that to a button in a TP and even when the system was rebooted things would sync automatically between Lutron and AMX. Again, like DHawthorne said you can send commands easily either raw commands or using the AMX Comm module commands. The problem is the feedback. We need some type of ARRAY MATRIX that keeps track of every single Button state (ON or OFF). The AMX module has a structure 'UKEYPAD' that somewhat do that, but dynamically. Meaning that after a system reboot, you will need to re-sync all button states again. Guys like DHawthorne, VAV and others with more advanced programming skills may be able to come up with a solution to simplify the integration. At least we have something to start now. Again, any ideas or sample code will be welcome.

    Ricardo
  • the8thstthe8thst Junior Member Posts: 470
    The lutron protocol is simple to work with. Why not just roll your own module?

    I know all of my systems are happier when they don't have any AMX coded modules to work with.
  • RicardoSiqueiraRicardoSiqueira Junior Member Posts: 373
    I agree with you a non Duet custom module will work way better. Unfortunately, I don't have a QS processor available all the time to try to come up with my own module. Perhaps, the released AMX module will help someone with full access to a QS processor to roll a new module. There are a few things on the AMX module that might help. I still don't understand why AMX doesn't release modules that can be easily updated to the real world. In the past 3 or 4 years, they've been releasing their modules under Duet with many API dependencies and broken down in sub modules (Power, Component, Commands, UI, etc), what further complicate things. I wish they would design modules to accommodate us the ones that sell their products, the competition does. Oh, well this is another discussion topic for another day. As far as AMX and QS, I am looking forward to see some ideas.

    Thanks,

    Ricardo
  • DHawthorneDHawthorne Junior Member Posts: 4,584
    I agree with you a non Duet custom module will work way better. Unfortunately, I don't have a QS processor available all the time to try to come up with my own module. Perhaps, the released AMX module will help someone with full access to a QS processor to roll a new module. There are a few things on the AMX module that might help. I still don't understand why AMX doesn't release modules that can be easily updated to the real world. In the past 3 or 4 years, they've been releasing their modules under Duet with many API dependencies and broken down in sub modules (Power, Component, Commands, UI, etc), what further complicate things. I wish they would design modules to accommodate us the ones that sell their products, the competition does. Oh, well this is another discussion topic for another day. As far as AMX and QS, I am looking forward to see some ideas.

    Thanks,

    Ricardo

    Because of products like VA and AMX.home, they have to conform with the API or it won't work in their own schema. Leaving aside whether such code generators are worth the trouble in the first place, since they do have them, they really must make their own modules compatible.
  • RicardoSiqueiraRicardoSiqueira Junior Member Posts: 373
    Lutron QS Light Levels

    Ok. I am trying to make the AMX Lutron QS module work for my needs. I am using the COMM module and I am changing the DEMO UIs to do what I need. So far, I am able to control phantoms and get button/LED feedback. Where I am struggling is on the levels. The DEMO code is implemented to parse only one level at a time depending on the zone selected from the DEMO UI pages. Also the API parsing (Snapi.axi) does not trap the zone separately. My project requires showing multiple levels at the same time; so, I need to come up with my on UI for the levels. This is the comand that comes back from Lutron QS that I need to trap:

    'LIGHTSYSTEMLEVEL-38:D1,150'

    38 is the zone number
    D1 stands for dimmer
    150 is the level value 0 to 255

    I need to trap the ZONE and corresponding LEVEL VALUE and save them to an array.

    I was thinking of a 2-dim Array or structure to save the ZONE and LEVEL and then tie them up to the levels on the TPs. It has been a while since I had to do command trapping/parsing and I had one of those days in which nothing worked. Ay suggestions? Thanks,

    NOTE: * Find attached the AMX Module code that I need to change. Look at the DATA_COMMAND case LIGHTSYSTEMLEVEL.

    Ricardo
  • RicardoSiqueiraRicardoSiqueira Junior Member Posts: 373
    Sorry it looks like I can't type : D together, otherwise I will get a smile. There is no space after the : and D1. But if I type them together I get a :D smile in this forum message text box. How funny is this?

    Line 3 (16:36:16):: Command From [41001:1:1]-[LIGHTSYSTEMLEVEL-12: D1,189]
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