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Duet - Cost & Experiences

I thought I'd throw this question out there again. Has anyone done anything that successfully does something with Duet? Any comments or positive things to say about it yet, or is it incredibly premature?
I'm an independant programmer & do not have a sales rep or contact. What does the Cafe Duet package go for? Does anyone out there have an extra copy they want to unload? Thanks!

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    DHawthorneDHawthorne Posts: 4,584
    The core Duet functionality is in your master code, and you can use Duet modules with any master that has the appropriate firmware. Cafe Duet runs in the $900 range last I looked, and an upload won't help you - you need a valid license key to run it and they are non-transferable. It may even be hardware based - I haven't got it yet, I've been waiting for it to mature a bit more first. This is all due to AMX's licensing agreements with Sun and the Java runtimes.
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    jjamesjjames Posts: 2,908
    Does anyone have a full list of what modules come with Duet? XML Parser? Calendar? What else maybe? I would think that the modules you could implement would pay for Duet in just a couple of jobs. Any ideas?
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    DHawthorneDHawthorne Posts: 4,584
    jjames wrote:
    Does anyone have a full list of what modules come with Duet? XML Parser? Calendar? What else maybe? I would think that the modules you could implement would pay for Duet in just a couple of jobs. Any ideas?
    One of the selling point is that you are supposed to be able to use readily available existing Java applets with Duet, so theoretically you could download non-device specific things like XML parsers, e-mail applets, etc. The only requirement is that they comply with J2ME and not have any unsupported calls (I understand Duet is a subset of J2ME).
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    AdaptelAdaptel Posts: 41
    A little more info needed.

    I'm curious if the ~$900 price for Cafe Duet is strictly a one-time cost incurred by the developer, as the purchase of a software development tool? Or, are there is any additional costs for licenses to "run" the plugins on each master?
    Also, I know that AMX has serialized Cafe Duet, I was asking if anyone had purchased it, decided they had no use for it, and wanted to sell their copy. As a personal developer, I am doing everything for myself, for education, and for as little money as possible. I am interested in jumping on the bandwaggon early because my applicaiton is for myself, not mission critical, & I like messing around with the "new stuff". In my opinion, the Java platform seems like a good move on AMX's part, although seems to be premature at the current time, but I am sure it will mature quite nicely. My 2cents.
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    DHawthorneDHawthorne Posts: 4,584
    From the lack of overwhelming responses to this thread, I have to guess most developers are in one of two boats: (1) haven't got it yet and are waiting for it to mature more, or, (2) have it, but aren't really using it much yet because of the time investments and lack of incentive to "re-invent the wheel." Those in boat 2 probably aren't ready yet to give up on the investment, and are waiting much like those in boat 1 for it to pay off.
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    AdaptelAdaptel Posts: 41
    Yes, I am very surprised to such an "across-the-boards" underwhelming response to such a major technology release such as Duet. It seems like when something major comes out, at least someone would have used it for something by now. It mystifys me that nobody has done ANYTHING with it yet. Maybee it is so premature, that it should have been released as betaware/freeware so that more programmers may get it in their hands and help get it to a state of usefulness. Its lack of interest just seems so strange after all the hype.
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    Spire_JeffSpire_Jeff Posts: 1,917
    I am in boat 1 at the moment. Basically, it's one of those "If it ain't broke" type things. I haven't seen any data that shows the Duet platform to perform any better than straight Netlinx and everything we deal with is for the most part already written. There isn't a compelling reason to rock the boat and possibly cause problems.

    This doesn't mean that I have ruled out Duet or that I'm not keeping an eye on it. In fact, I can't wait to see some modules from AMX that leverage the Duet platform. I keep hearing about a Duet module for the DMS Keypads and that alone would probably be reason enough to purchase Duet (if it is more functional and/or reliable than the netlinx module). Another app I think everyone would like to see is enhanced email and web browsing features. I personally still think it would be easier to just jump on a laptop to surf the net, but I can definately see the benefit to adding specific links to a touch panel, ie a link to the local newspaper or tv station news page, a link to cnn, a link to weather.com... To be able to do this without having to write an HTML parser in Netlinx would be a huge asset and I hope that Duet eventually brings this to the table.

    One other factor is that right now I'm familiar with coding in Netlinx and I'm comfortable with it. I don't foresee any problem learning Java, but I barely have time to complete jobs now. Unless there is a huge benefit or necessity, I don't see Duet being on the top of my list anytime soon.

    Jeff
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    youstrayoustra Posts: 135
    Chicken/Egg

    Outside of the DMS development, they're in a chicken/egg situation.

    Duet is probably LEAST valuable to current Netlinx programmers, who can get just about anything done faster w/ the language we already know.

    Duet is most useful to managers/dealers who have to hire/develop/train/pay the rare and exotic Netlinx programmers. There are many more java-trained than Netlinx-trained developers out there. Sounds good in theory.

    Unfortunately for AMX, the managers/dealers have to rely on their current Netlinx programmers to experiment and validate Duet. Surprise - very few have recommended it to their bosses as a necessary step.

    This is thoroughly exacerbated by the license fee, which should be as low as possible to get Netlinx programmers to play around with it between jobs.

    It's always tough to roll out a new platform quickly w/o irritating someone. I'm hopeful it will eventually emerge on it's own merits.
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    Duet - Cost & Experiences

    Let me offer another perspective from a longtime Netlinx programmer. I am intrigued by the prospect of moving to Java/Duet to the extent it helps me program faster and better. I am not looking for another 'cool' language to master so there needs to be some clear benefits to motivate me to migrate. The biggest motivators would be:

    - Broader range of device modules available to me
    - Manufacturers writing/distributing modules for their devices
    - Broader array of language constructs/more powerful language

    I think Duet/Java has the potential to deliver on all of these but it still seems early. I don't see Duet/Java, at this point in time, giving me enough of an edge to migrate. The cost of the development environment is not really an impediment for me. My issue is the lack of distinct advantages, at this stage, to really start working with Duet.

    Some factors that give me pause for concern:

    - Training - there are no Duet classes scheduled and only 2 have been taught so far since Duet was introduced (this seems to be a problem)

    - Relaibility of 3.x Firmware - Dave (Hawthorne) and others have reported problems with some critical Netlinx features like IP connections in the 3.x firmware. I can not afford to migrate systems to 3.x unless it is as good or better than the 2.x firmware I am using. Regressions I do not need.

    - Schedule - according to the original schedule from AMX, Cafe Duet 2.x for application development would have been generally released by now as well as most other initially planned and committed Duet components. The initial release of Duet firmware was delayed and this seems to have rippled through the Duet product family.

    I am not planning to do anything with Duet until I can talk with AMX about it in more detail at CEDIA and see more about the direction of Netlinx/Duet and the updated schedule. I hope that Duet matures to become an invaluable part of the Netlinx offering but for now, I am in a wait and see mode.

    Reese
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    GSLogicGSLogic Posts: 562
    My 2.5 cents

    Reason #1
    AMX's main concern was not to develop Duet for certified Netlinx programmers, it was to entice some of the many Java programmers to learn Duet. There is no other way they could reach so many programmers at one time.

    Reason #2
    Java is the only was to go! I'm only waiting for Duet 2.0 to be released so I can program completely in Duet.
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    My First Duet

    Well suprisingly enough I found a DUET module that I can use. It's for the new Classe series of Recievers we are demoing in our showroom. I'll post what I find out with regards to it's intialization implementation etc etc. I'm too am curious where this road is taking us...
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