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Hey AMX, why no "Real" Virtual Panels?

JasonSJasonS Posts: 229
in NetLinx Studio
I don't know what everyone else's experience has been but I feel like we are getting killed by the other company in the Virtual Panel arena. I work for a company that does both AMX and the other guys, and the other guys are selling alot more based on their ability to do "fully functional" virtual panels for VERY little cost. Where as we have to pay big bucks for hardware or a 3rd party solution. I am worried that I will have to become a programmer for the other guy's system so I can stay employed. What is the deal AMX? Don't even get me started on the products that are being discountinued without suitable replacements available.

Comments

  • jjamesjjames Posts: 2,908
    Could you explain what a "Real" virtual panel is?
  • JasonSJasonS Posts: 229
    jjames wrote: »
    Could you explain what a "Real" virtual panel is?

    What I mean is a web or "executable" touch panel that is not arbitrarily limited to a low number of ports and channels. Like what is offered by that company which shall not be named.
  • viningvining Posts: 4,368
    That's something that should be addressed by TPC and they should come out with a PC/MAC version just like iRidium does. I don't know crap about Craptron but I believe the xPanel is free and with iRidium you can buy an unlimited usage licence for roughly twice the cost of a TPC iPad license but with that unlimited license you can have as many iPad, iPhone, PC or MACs as you want. It does make it really hard to compete which is why for the most part AMX doesn't in the resi market. I gave up trying to understand their logic in these matters.
  • JasonSJasonS Posts: 229
    I'm not talking about the resi market. I do all commercial and government work.
  • ericmedleyericmedley Posts: 4,177
    I have experience with both. I do Craptron too. The XPanel is simply a little .exe you throw on any computer. Myou pre configure it so the end user can't really goof it up. It's most common use is in situations like small classrooms that share controls, or things like where a receptionist needs to control a small presentation system. (lobby TVs or music). Stuff like that.

    It has never really taken over the TP because it is just not 100% reliable. They suffer from system upgrade incompatibilities and the usual problems with keeping all the necessary plug-in, flash, active x, etc versions happy.

    They're bet used on a 'get in, do what you need to do, get out" basis.

    AMX does have a little box that aloes you to Web or VNC into it that's not too expensive but it's not the XPanel.
  • rmjstsrmjsts Posts: 19
    Web control

    Dont forget that you can always save a short cut to the NI controller web page and show the users how to use the VNC connection to the TP. I only work in commercial and government markets and no residential as well. I show this to most customers as a way to control the system without being in the room. Most use this to have IT or Reception bring the system needed online prior to presentation or meeting remotely so they can continue working without having to be disturbed. Most clients are impressed with this. I have offered TPC to several customers and have not sold one yet, most are not interested in it.

    RMJSTS
  • ericmedleyericmedley Posts: 4,177
    I wold imagine that TPControl will be more popular in the Resi market than commercial for a while. Seeing that the license stays with the mobile device it's just a business model better suited for Resi. The solution I was toying with before I shelved it due to time constraints was based on a license on the Master solution. The app was almost free. I was thinking more along the lines of both Resi and Commercial.
  • John NagyJohn Nagy Posts: 1,742
    rmjsts wrote: »
    Dont forget that you can always save a short cut to the NI controller web page and show the users how to use the VNC connection to the TP.

    Have you tried using this on a modern computer? The ActiveX control AMX uses doesn't work on newer operating systems.... not even XP with current updates.
  • champchamp Posts: 261
    IMHO this is the biggest negative to the AMX lineup but there are ways around it, just not cheap and easy ones.

    I put xpanels and the free version of the iPad and iPhone apps into every single of the oppositions jobs, sometimes it is just for setup and diagnostics and I don't even tell the client.
    It also makes programming much easier when you don't need a physical panel.

    I created a basic Yahoo widget years ago and used that for a while, I posted it on these forums when I created it.
    I'm not even sure if PCLink still works though, I got over widgets and stopped using it a long time ago.

    You can always create PCLink GUIs in Visual Studio or your prefered IDE (if the ActiveX component still works).

    At the end of the day though it is a financial decision and AMX must think that they will loose more revenue than they will gain by releasing a version of G4 Preview that can connect to a master.
  • JasonSJasonS Posts: 229
    champ wrote: »
    At the end of the day though it is a financial decision and AMX must think that they will loose more revenue than they will gain by releasing a version of G4 Preview that can connect to a master.

    This is my whole point in starting this post. I am becoming increasingly frustrated by AMX and their poor decisions. They are lucky is still hate Craptron more.
  • mshuntmshunt Posts: 23
    I know you still need a physical panel in the system somewhere, but I find the VNC feature a great selling point. If the ActiveX component doesn't work properly, point them in the direction of a VNC viewer which does the same. I use ultra VNC and it is a great tool, especially when the TP and the NI are in different rooms. I even did a system where one TP could VNC into another for remote control from a reception desk. Now I know that isn't as nice as a discrete panel, but I find it is a good solution.
  • John NagyJohn Nagy Posts: 1,742
    VNC is great as far as it goes, but sharing a physical panel isn't like having another independent panel. The lack of sound to assure you got a touch, coupled with the delay for painting feedback is also annoying.

    We've also instituted panel-to-panel VNC for customers to monitor their other homes. You get all the video windows and such, they love it.
  • ColzieColzie Posts: 470
    John Nagy wrote: »
    We've also instituted panel-to-panel VNC for customers to monitor their other homes. You get all the video windows and such, they love it.

    Can you elaborate on how this is accomplished? Thanks!
  • John NagyJohn Nagy Posts: 1,742
    You can open a VNC session using a button with VNC credentials hard coded in the panel project, much like a dynamic image.

    We programmatically supply the target and credentials to the button when we open the page. We have a list of desired targets in a data file, so the user picks what they want to connect to from a menu before we open.

    Same process allows the panel to manage applications that offer a VNC based UI, like the Wine Sommelier program that was popular a few years back.
  • viningvining Posts: 4,368
    Colzie wrote: »
    Can you elaborate on how this is accomplished? Thanks!

    Same tp setup used for computer control, just use ip of another tp instead of pc.
  • ColzieColzie Posts: 470
    Wow, I had no idea. I love discovering new features like this!

    What about TPControl? Can an iPad view a VNC server like this?
  • viningvining Posts: 4,368
    Colzie wrote: »
    Wow, I had no idea. I love discovering new features like this!

    What about TPControl? Can an iPad view a VNC server like this?
    Yeah, that's how most of us setup our iPad to act as tps if we don't want or can't budget the tpc solution.

    I have tpc and i use iTeleport onmy iPad v1 but not at the same time.

    Edit.

    If you're asking about CC while using tpc i would suppose that would work, never tried though.
  • ColzieColzie Posts: 470
    Yes, my question was can you VNC to a TP from within TPControl on an iPad.
  • ColzieColzie Posts: 470
    Colzie wrote: »
    Yes, my question was can you VNC to a TP from within TPControl on an iPad.

    ANSWER: As of 2.2.1.1 it looks like this does not work. It just shows a blank button, not even the "connecting.." text. Hopefully it is something they will be adding.
  • John NagyJohn Nagy Posts: 1,742
    TPC presently supports neither VNC in nor out. You can't view TPC via VNC, you can't VNC from inside TPC to another VNC server.

    I've heard no comments from anyone at TPC about VNC services at all... so it if is on the table for the future, it isn't openly discussed.
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