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StackOverflow-ish site for AMX
PhreaK
Posts: 966
Hi all, I'm wanting to put out the feelers for this idea. I'm thinking about setting up a StackOverflow-ish site for questions specific to the AMX developer / installer community.
This is not intended to replace these forums, but as an additional tool.
Forums are awesome for discussion, however a lot of the posts that appear here are more along the lines of question based content for which there is a definitive answer, or if there are multiple some which are more optimal than others. Currently if you have a problem you have to (attempt to) search for a previous post where it has been posed, then dig through what is usually pages of discussion to find the single post with the golden nugget of information. Needless to say this isn't exactly the most efficient process. A site specifically designed for Q+A with a voting system would allow the mass of knowledge that gets funneled through here to be structured in a much more accessible way, and will also allow the community to bubble the best content to the top.
My question is: would you use it?
This is not intended to replace these forums, but as an additional tool.
Forums are awesome for discussion, however a lot of the posts that appear here are more along the lines of question based content for which there is a definitive answer, or if there are multiple some which are more optimal than others. Currently if you have a problem you have to (attempt to) search for a previous post where it has been posed, then dig through what is usually pages of discussion to find the single post with the golden nugget of information. Needless to say this isn't exactly the most efficient process. A site specifically designed for Q+A with a voting system would allow the mass of knowledge that gets funneled through here to be structured in a much more accessible way, and will also allow the community to bubble the best content to the top.
My question is: would you use it?
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What about an index site of some sort that pointed into the AMX messages?
It wouldn't require all the valuable information to be entered again... just discovered and described.
Can you expand some more on what you mean about an index site?
To clarify the concept of this site it is not to merely point to existing content within these forums. It is intended to provide an environment where an AMX related question can be asked and the community (which, as with these forums, includes AMX staff should they wish to contribute) provide an answer. So far this is pretty similar to the forums, however where it deviates and proves its use is should someone else have the same (or similar) query this knowledge is easily accessible and the solution deemed by the community to be most relevant / accurate at any point in time given upmost relevance. This is a system that has been proven to function extremely well by a number of Q+A sites, reduces duplication of content and massively increases its accessibility.
I'm open to any ideas people want to table. At this point I'll probably try to jump in and get a initial version up and running over the next couple of weekends. I'll keep everyone posted.
If the AMX forums were just easier to search, or indexed in a way to find things (like a GOOGLE overlay?)... along with a user-added "useful or important" rating (REDDIT voting?)....
The value is in the knowledge, the knowledge is already captured... there's got to be a way to use it without entering it all again on a new site.
Honestly, I'm considering having my account deleted because the usefulness of the forum has come to an end in my opinion. The answers are obscured by personal opinions, something I'm at fault at as well. If I can go somewhere to look for an answer, and not have it littered with useless information - I'd much rather go there.
Would this be a closed door forum so only experienced programmers can enter? If so then that's not good for AMX or ourselves. AMX benefits greatly from the advice senior members bestow on newbs so if we close the door on the newbs AMX jobs involving newbs will suffer. As far as ourselves, I feel we gain greater understanding as we try to explain things to others even if it opens the door to contrary point of views and criticism.
If it's a completely open forum then both sites will be diluted as JN pointed out and IMHO I'd like to see more particpation in the current forum not less.
There was another forum started some years ago that was by invite only and that fizzled out after a few short months. Basically I'm content here but if you build it I will come visit every now and then in order to see what I'm missing.
I'm with John on this one as well. It is convenient for me to monitor this forum and search for answers here. I wouldn't actively keep up with two separate sites. I like to hear from the community here and as an experienced programmer I tend to learn more from the back stories to the questions than from the answers.
While the "other" company has no manufacturer backed online forum for dealers, there are several user/dealer maintained forums around that each has a pitiful amount of traffic and I don't monitor them or even search for answers there as a result. I've been banging on to company C about having a manufacturer backed community support site for years but they haven't listened - and they've lost sales because of it as I can't quiz the community when I run into a problem.
IMHO the AMX dealer community isn't large enough to warrant the creation of a separate community support site and such a site would jeopardise what has been built here. I think that a second site with the current size of the user base would erode the number of people monitoring a single site and hence the level of support available. I'll be lurking here for as long as there is sufficient activity to warrant it.
I agree with JN on this one. I visit these forums as part of my daily breakfast, as well as other forums that are relevant to the non-AMX parts of my job. Adding yet another portal to visit is not going to improve the collective knowledge. At best it will duplicate it, at worst it will segregate it.
A second site which is not supported by AMX will make it more difficult for the occasional bona-fide participation of AMX Engineers. I would not expect participation by AMX Engineers in a forum that is not controlled by AMX since there is less ability (if any) for AMX to retract posts etc. It's basic risk-minimisation/mitigation that any business should employ. If an engineer decides to post in a 3rd party forum they would either be:
1) Representing the company, making AMX liable for the engineers comments, or
2) Divulging confidential information, which is not a good spot for the engineer to be in.
Maybe the existing forums can be improved/upgraded to allow thumbs up/down ratings for individual posts. (One "thumb vote" per user per post. Users can change/retract their vote when they like.) Adding a "thumbs up" option to the results-ordering for Advanced Search and I think you would have an effective StackOverflow outcome. While getting AMX to improve the forums sometimes seems like push-starting a juggernaut, they do listen and can sometimes even deliver on our requests.
If you like this post please give it a "thumbs up".
Roger McLean
Swinburne University
Categorized into things like TV Control, RCVR, SetTop box, etc, I for one would post to said site with the useful tidbits out of older posts so I personally dont have to go digging for them again.
That way we can condense down all the offtopic stuff that we are all liable for and get a pure post.
Discussion still happen here, research still happens here, but when a problem is solved, off it goes to the database.
I initially looked into SE sites however as you mentioned it would be a challenge to get enough commitment to move it into their beta process.
I'm by no means a vBulletin expert but I'd expect modifying these forums to implement a voting system would not be a minor task. It would require a relatively large architectural change to shift from a system based on linear conversation to ranked responses and would break the structure of the information contained (i.e. single posts which only form part of a conversation elevated whilst the rest is down-voted into oblivion). However, if a forum admin is reading this and can implement a solution based on the current forums that'd be awesome - just let me know before I get started on this
Now in terms of the proposed site there is a very nice and simple open source implementation of the SO model - http://www.osqa.net/ - which this would be based on. It would also be completely open - the entire social model relies on this.
Its not something that you need to 'keep up with' in the same way as these forums. It is a resource that is available when you need it. If a question has solicited discussion you can still follow the narrative and enjoy the story, but if you're searching for an answer you can find it. Quickly.
If you want discussion and some conversation during your morning coffee the forums are still here, I know I'd still be reading them religiously.
The dilution / duplication of content is a valid concern however. It will happen and will be annoying and is something that needs to be addressed and fixed if this is going to work.
I am more discouraged to recognize that it is the lack of tools in the existing forum, not the content, that motivates consideration of another site.
There -has- to be a way to leverage the existing content in a better way. I just now arbitrarily tried to find several things that I know I've read about here, using the search. I got nowhere, and I even know where I should look, who the players were, the terminology used, etc.. Looking for anything you aren't sure is here is pure wasted time or lucky guess.
First and foremost, a search engine overlay like GOOGLE may be possible to index all the messages and search in a genuinely useful way. That would let you form strings of words with meaning, and get MORE RELEVANT results, instead of JUST MUCH MORE RANDOM RESULTS like you do now.
Second, a rating widget (thumbs?) or votes like reddit at each message... allowing your (better) search to include result ranking by thumbs IF YOU WANT.
Keywords could be attached to individual messages too, added by readers, cleaned up by volunteer admins, to help refine later searches. Like "NI SERIAL PORT FAILURE" or "TPDESIGN4 BUGS" or "VARIABLE COUNT REDUCTION". Keywords for topics often don't reflect buried gems within.
This would not break the structure, but let you find more, and find the most specific and highest rated resulting messages on your point.
I'd also suggest an option (nay, an encouragement) to search by using the entire content of your entered message, before posting, to help prevent needless repeated questions before they post.
Or a "More Posts Like This One" widget in the bottom bar of every message that submitted that message as a search query, in a new window or tab.
I have the feeling that no matter how hard such things would be to implement, it would be less work and more valuable than starting over. And I can't imagine that there aren't VBULLETIN hackers out there that have done -something- more than we have here now... or could be urged to do so. I can hope.
vBulletin is open source, so there is a very active community of users writing plugins and modifications for the platform. I don't know if there has been any formal testing of this plugin, but it appears it would add the functionality that we are talking about without creating a new site.
Nice. I'd +1 a vote for that.
Roger McLean
Swinburne Univeristy
Does anyone here have a contact at AMX they can speak to (or pass on the details of) so that we can discuss the possibility of getting this implemented.
Maybe fill out one of these
http://www.amx.com/contactamx/feedback.asp?tech=1
with a link to this thread and the plugin. You may even get a ticket number for the feature request. In fact, I'll do that now.
Progress update: Request has been formally submitted to AMX.
Progress update: AMX TechSupport have passed the request onto AMX HQ.
Roger McLean
Swinburne University
Any word back from AMX HQ?
No, not yet.
Roger McLean
Swinburne University
Maybe we should speak to Viney and see if we can get some official leverage?