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8400/7500 New Firmware!!!

TurnipTruckTurnipTruck Junior MemberPosts: 1,485
Anyone tried it out yet? I'm snowed in with no panels to test on.
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  • alexsquaredalexsquared Junior Member Posts: 166
    Firmware

    Just put it on 2x 8400 and one 8400i.
    Panels took a bit to boot up but the logo is much nicer to look at :o). There is a slew of new wireless settings and info which is much appreciated. I'm hoping it will help this particular customer who is having numerous wireless issues.
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,356
    alexsquared wrote:
    There is a slew of new wireless settings and info which is much appreciated.
    I did my bench 8400i last night and agree with the above. The "info" on the wireless page is very informative and I think the "average" setting will solve alot of issues that has plague some of my panels. The ability to select which channels to roam is also cool or should I say exclude to roam.

    I'm sure there's other stuff in the firmware that will improve wirless reliability above what we can now do with these advance wi-fi settings. I don't have time to play with any of this stuff now so hopefully time will prove these improvements to be beneficial.

    Other than that the TP still works but I only have a small test program running for the slim server and nothing else on this TP & master. I guess I could load it on my office 8400 & master which has a ton of crap running but I have no time for that either.
  • DHawthorneDHawthorne Junior Member Posts: 4,584
    I'm also snowed in and working from my dining room table ... but I don't have an 8400 at the office to test it on anyway. I'm not inclined to load it on a customer panel until the weather clears up a bit; I'm cozy enough (until the inevitable dig-out) that I really don't want to deal with a panic call from a half-loaded firmware :) .
  • RicardoSiqueiraRicardoSiqueira Junior Member Posts: 373
    I just loaded my office MVP8400 with the new firmware and found some problems:

    1) Even tough my panel has a G wireless card, the Enterprise mode is grayed out. Simple mode only allows WEP and channels 1,6,11. I need to use WAP. If you have a high end Cisco routers that uses other channels, 3,4,5, 7,8,9,10, you will be out of luck.

    2) Roaming and Site Survey is also grayed out.

    3) I called tech support and it looks like I will need to send the panel in. It still works and communicates with the Master, but all the advanced wireless settings are disabled. This should not happen with G wireless panels only with the older B only panels.

    At last, I downgraded the MVP8400 back to firmware v2_85_14 and all the advanced features work again including the WAP-PSK. Therefore, the new firmware v2_86_50 may have some issues to be corrected or it doesn't recognize my wireless G correctly, even tough all the prior firmwares do.

    Ricardo
  • ColzieColzie Senior Member Posts: 470
    I loaded onto my 8400i, everything looks great.
    1) Even tough my panel has a G wireless card, the Enterprise mode is grayed out. Simple mode only allows WEP and channels 1,6,11. I need to use WAP. If you have a high end Cisco routers that uses other channels, 3,4,5, 7,8,9,10, you will be out of luck.

    From my inferring I don't think you are limited to 1,6,11 (though from what I've heard you should limit to 1,6,11). If you touch the "i" next to Channel Selection it explains:
    8400 TP wrote:
    You can select 1 of 3 channel groups to exclude when the panel scans for access points. This helps avoid channels where there is a heavy concentration of 2.4GHz signals. These are the channels excluded in each group:
    Ch. 1 (1,2,3), Ch. 6 (4,5,6,7), Ch. 11 (9,10,11,12,13).

    It looks like if your WAP is on channel 13, for example, that as long as you don't exclude "Ch. 11" it would still pick it up.
  • RicardoSiqueiraRicardoSiqueira Junior Member Posts: 373
    Colzie,

    Thanks for replying to my post. The problem is that the i (Info), Roaming, Site Survey and Enterprise buttons are grayed out and don't work under the new firmware. Now, I downgraded the panel back to the previous firmware and everything works fine again. WAP, Roaming, Site Survey, etc. I talked to AMX tech and they want the panel back so they can dig deeper into the problem. Since the panel is still under warranty, I decided to send it back to them. The new firmware may work for some panels and may not work for others like mine, I am not sure why, but one thing I know, everything works fine with the firmware previous (v2_85_14) to the latest, so I am thinking that the new firmware(v2_86_50) may still need a tweak.

    Ricardo
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,356
    I just noticed a possible problem with the 8400i running the new frimware and my TDS. The new panel doesn't seem to charge or indicate charging correctly although it properly indicates being docked. The magnet also releases after a couple of seconds and the panel can just be removed w/o a button push or code commands. My 8400 running older firmware works fine in this TDS and the 8400i w/ new firmware seems to work fine in my WDS so I don't know. I'm thinking an incompatability with the new 8400i firmware and the firmware on the TDS so I sent an email to TS to see if the newer TDS frimware will fix this. (The newest TDS firmware has to be released by TS).
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,356
    I rolled back the firmware on the 8400i to 2.85.14 which is the same firmware I'm running on the 8400 that works in the docking station and it still has docking issues so it's not firmware related. I cleaned the contacts on the 8400i that mate with the docking stations but that had no affect on the problem.

    I was so hoping it was a firmware issue but I guess this panel might need to take a road trip.
  • DHawthorneDHawthorne Junior Member Posts: 4,584
    vining wrote: »
    I rolled back the firmware on the 8400i to 2.85.14 which is the same firmware I'm running on the 8400 that works in the docking station and it still has docking issues so it's not firmware related. I cleaned the contacts on the 8400i that mate with the docking stations but that had no affect on the problem.

    I was so hoping it was a firmware issue but I guess this panel might need to take a road trip.

    Or the dock. I've had those electromagnets die on me before. Not often, but it has happened. I also had one case where the contact section of the panel was ever so slightly crooked in the panel, preventing consistent connections.
  • jjamesjjames AMX Sustaining Engineer Posts: 2,901
    And if it is the dock, I believe those things have a 3 year warranty on them; so hopefully it's still under warranty.
  • HARMAN_rgellingHARMAN_rgelling AMX Engineering Posts: 96
    I just loaded my office MVP8400 with the new firmware and found some problems:

    1) Even tough my panel has a G wireless card, the Enterprise mode is grayed out. Simple mode only allows WEP and channels 1,6,11. I need to use WAP. If you have a high end Cisco routers that uses other channels, 3,4,5, 7,8,9,10, you will be out of luck.

    2) Roaming and Site Survey is also grayed out.

    3) I called tech support and it looks like I will need to send the panel in. It still works and communicates with the Master, but all the advanced wireless settings are disabled. This should not happen with G wireless panels only with the older B only panels.

    At last, I downgraded the MVP8400 back to firmware v2_85_14 and all the advanced features work again including the WAP-PSK. Therefore, the new firmware v2_86_50 may have some issues to be corrected or it doesn't recognize my wireless G correctly, even tough all the prior firmwares do.

    Ricardo

    I have tested these panels extensively with wireless G cards with no problems. If I put a B card into my unit it correctly grays out the buttons. Put the G card back in and they become available again. It will be interesting to see what the problem is with that card when it comes back in. As a note, the site survey tool requires the G card, as does roaming. Also, with with a B card the panel will scan all channels when looking for a WAP. So there is always a way to get to a WAP on a channel that is not 1, 6, or 11. This same behavior applies with a G card with roaming disabled.
  • Spire_JeffSpire_Jeff Formerly Caffeinated Programmer Posts: 1,917
    vining wrote: »
    I rolled back the firmware on the 8400i to 2.85.14 which is the same firmware I'm running on the 8400 that works in the docking station and it still has docking issues so it's not firmware related. I cleaned the contacts on the 8400i that mate with the docking stations but that had no affect on the problem.

    I was so hoping it was a firmware issue but I guess this panel might need to take a road trip.

    I just encountered this problem myself. Is the table dock older? There was a manufacturing difficulty that resulted in the docks or touch panel connectors being slightly off spec (maybe it was both). In the newer panels, this difficulty has been addressed (read as: they are making them properly now???) and now if you try to dock a new panel in an old dock, or maybe its the other way around, weird things happen.

    The problem manifested itself as the touch panels instantly dropping their wireless connection when docked at the client's house (our showroom panel was on loan while the dropped panel was sent back). After we got the dropped panel back, we sent our office panel in for service (didn't know the cause yet). They replaced the connector to "fix" the panel....then we got it back and docked it in the wall dock in our showroom. This is where it is similar to your situation, as the panel would no longer charge in the dock. I don't recall if it would say docked or not, but it definitely did not charge. I think pushing on the top center of the panel lightly would align the pins and it would show as docked/charging, so you could try that to verify. We sent both the touch panel and the dock in, and they came back all fixed and functional.

    Hope this helps,
    Jeff
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,356
    DHawthorne wrote:
    Or the dock. I've had those electromagnets die on me before. Not often, but it has happened. I also had one case where the contact section of the panel was ever so slightly crooked in the panel, preventing consistent connections.

    Unfonunately my old 8400 works perfectly with both of my docks (one of each) and the much newer 8400i is the one causing me grief.

    Spire_Jeff wrote:
    I just encountered this problem myself. Is the table dock older? There was a manufacturing difficulty that resulted in the docks or touch panel connectors being slightly off spec (maybe it was both).

    After visually comparing the working 8400 to the disfunctional 8400i I noticed a slight alignment difference. I ripped it apart but that connecter is fitted securely to the PCB so I lifted up the PCB, stuck a couple of folded paper shims under the PCB on top of its mounting posts on either side of the connector, re-assembled and she's a now workin a great!
  • alexsquaredalexsquared Junior Member Posts: 166
    vining wrote: »
    After visually comparing the working 8400 to the disfunctional 8400i I noticed a slight alignment difference. I ripped it apart but that connecter is fitted securely to the PCB so I lifted up the PCB, stuck a couple of folded paper shims under the PCB on top of its mounting posts on either side of the connector, re-assembled and she's a now workin a great!

    Isn't frustrating that this mod has to be done to a multiple thousand dollar panel? :)
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,356
    alexsquared wrote:
    Isn't frustrating that this mod has to be done to a multiple thousand dollar panel?
    Yeah you would think this type of design flaw would be caught prior to the production run. I've always used docking stations with these MVPs as do most folks I assume so it should be a normal combination to test for proper operation. Even if it passes their obvious "thorough" testing procedures and they make it to the field when they then start recieving reports of issues and then they confirm the problem and determine the cause you would think a re-call or advisory would be sent to those that bought TPs with serial numbers from that production run. Is AMX ISO 9000 certified? You would think with the amount of gov contracts they would be.

    I guess I could have called TS but that would have cost me $1,200.00 dollars to find out what I found out for free here on the forum and with the $0.02 fix I saved on shipping and the repair fee (warranty?) to fix what should never have been an issue.
  • DHawthorneDHawthorne Junior Member Posts: 4,584
    Isn't frustrating that this mod has to be done to a multiple thousand dollar panel? :)

    True, but it's rare. I've sold scores of 8400's, and only came across it once, and AMX shipped me a new one immediately. I think the bigger problem is the tech support tiers that put the onus on smaller dealers to cough up for support thy really shouldn't have to pay for.
  • John GonzalesJohn Gonzales Junior Member Posts: 609
    DHawthorne wrote: »
    ...the tech support tiers that put the onus on smaller dealers to cough up for support thy really shouldn't have to pay for.
    Agreed.

    --John
  • TurnipTruckTurnipTruck Junior Member Posts: 1,485
    DHawthorne wrote: »
    I think the bigger problem is the tech support tiers that put the onus on smaller dealers to cough up for support thy really shouldn't have to pay for.

    This will be a shot in their foot. Not sure how yet, but it will.
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,356
    DHawthorne wrote:
    I think the bigger problem is the tech support tiers that put the onus on smaller dealers to cough up for support thy really shouldn't have to pay for.
    The TS thing doesn't really bother me all that much since I don't really like talking to people anyway but if I spent the $1,200.00 I would probably call them everyday and ask stupid questions just to get my money's worth. :)

    TurnipTruck wrote:
    This will be a shot in their foot. Not sure how yet, but it will.
    I'm not really sure what to make of these new requirements and hoops they're putting dealers through but I can only assume as their residential relevance wanes and the hoops get higher dealers will simple tire and go for a simpler more profitable alternative. I know if I wasn't addicted to this stuff I would be gone.

    Maybe this is just a temp strategy to weed out dealers who aren't committed but they've got to be pushing folks away that are but tired of the BS and the headaches. I don't see alot of the big expensive ventures by AMX that were geared towards the resi market panning out, namely VA and those dealers brought in to take advantage of VA seem to be the ones most at risk with the BullsEye mandates. With new products form other manufacturers, mobile devices and the direction the resi market seems to be heading maybe they're completely re-thinking the resi sector and its future and ultimately its place in AMX down the road.

    Maybe like what happened to TPC we'll never know until someone wants us to know.
  • RicardoSiqueiraRicardoSiqueira Junior Member Posts: 373
    I am still playing with the new MVP8400 firmware v. 2.86.50. Even though my office MVP8400 is still at AMX repair, I am using my home MVP8400 and notice one problem. On prior versions, I used a status bar which shows the 'Link Quality' and 'Signal Strength' for the wireless signal on my main TP pages, but the new firmware doesn't have this functions anymore. It now has a 'Signal Level' progress bar, which I like better and simulates a Windows wireless signal strenght/level progress bar. However, the problem is with the latest TP4 software (2.11 build 619) and prior versions, which still have the old 'Link Quality' and 'Signal Strength' functions under its FILE, OPEN SYSTEM PAGE_TEMPLATE. In order to support the new firmware Signal Level progress bar the TP4 application needs to be updated with the new function. Hopefully, they will just add the new function and not delete the old ones; otherwise, all panels updated on the field with the new firmware will need to be changed to reflect the new function 'Signal Level'. Do your TP4 installations show the Signal Level or the 'Link Quality' and 'Signal Strength' like mine? Am I missing something? I loaded the latest TP4 available. I will contact AMX Tech support next week. Any ideas? Thanks!

    Ricardo
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,356
    RicardoSiqueira wrote:
    Do your TP4 installations show the Signal Level or the 'Link Quality' and 'Signal Strength' like mine? Am I missing something?
    I noticed that last week when I updated but I rolled it back for other reasons. That is one of those gotcha things, you have to break your panels to benefit from these improvements. It's not the end of the world though since if you're doing the firmware upgrade you might as well upload new TPD4 files and master programs too. Just takes a bit longer. Of course if you're not aware of this change and you go to the site and upgrade firmware and then get a call from clients a few days later because these parts are now broken you might be justified in being a little pissed.

    I think a warning would be prudent for firmware updates that are almost assured to break some functionality of your panels.
  • RicardoSiqueiraRicardoSiqueira Junior Member Posts: 373
    The problem is that the TP4 software built-in setup pages don't yet support the new SIGNAL LEVEL function that the new firmware offers. The TP4 Setup Pages that you can open via FILE, OPEN SYSTEM PAGE_TEMPLATE still has the old 'Link Quality' and 'Signal Strength' under the _ProtectedSecondaryID (Wireless Setup Page). The TP4 software needs to be updated to reflect the new function. While the panel is loaded with the new firmware, I noticed that the Signal Level is defined with 5 little boxes with the 0:81 level code definition. Maybe there is a back door way to recreate the signal level bar manually. I wish AMX would notify us on this new function and how to implement it since it compromises the old 'Link Quality' and 'Signal Strength' format of previous firmwares.

    Ricardo
  • Stephen BoltonStephen Bolton Junior Member Posts: 345
    I have a system with an MVP 8400 that has happily sat connected over WEP64 for several years.

    The client has upgraded their network to a Cisco managed Wireless Solution using a Cisco Wireless LAN controller, LWAPP access points and we have configured the MVP (2.86.50) to use WPA Enterprise, LEAP. I note that the MVP NetStumbler instance determined PEAP for this network, and whilst we can connect to it using PEAP, by choice we will use LEAP.

    There is an AP in the room and the signal levels for the MVP in dB (nice) are fine.

    After a little bit of fiddling we got the authentication detail sorted and the panel connected, but it won't stay connected for long. Sometimes 5 minutes, sometimes a few hours. There are truckloads of fragments and retries also.

    It sometimes leaves the 'green ball' green on the MVP, but there is no connection to the master. The NIC in the MVP is pingable at this time.

    Open the TOOLS>>CONNECTION UTILITY box and the panel goes offline.

    The client has iphone users, and laptops in all sorts of difficult places and they still have good connectivity - even if a bit slow.

    We have reinstated the WEP64 WAP to the system and reconfigured to simple mode on the MVP, but we we seem to go offline now about once a day. Today was for nearly 4 hours.

    Of interest, if roaming is selected, we cannot get a connection over WEP64. Switch roaming off and we get an immediate connection.

    I have older f/w running on the master - I will upgrade this to see if this helps.

    The broken levels for battery and wireless signal are a pain too - a warning would have been nice!

    If anyone has any thoughts on the new f/w and using Enterprise as above, I would really appreciate it!
  • jjamesjjames AMX Sustaining Engineer Posts: 2,901
    vining wrote: »
    ...but I can only assume as their residential relevance wanes...

    I don't see alot of the big expensive ventures by AMX that were geared towards the resi market panning out...
    Don't forget, AMX's resi market is only about 20% in regards to where they make their money. I have heard (just rumors and no backing) that they are gearing up with some very cool resi stuff. I think we'll just have to wait . . . I'm putting my money on InfoComm to see some very cool stuff. I have no "inside" information, but I can't see AMX going past InfoComm to show some new things in the resi market - it'd be silly in my opinion to wait until CEDIA - just way too long to hold out on neat stuff. I have to say though, AMX seems to be very tight lipped on new product lately - perhaps a sign of things to come? I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
    The problem is that the TP4 software built-in setup pages don't yet support the new SIGNAL LEVEL function that the new firmware offers.
    As cool as the new firmware sounds - I'm waiting until TPD4 is updated and we get more positive reviews. I may play with it at the office - but won't be deploying it on a jobsite just yet.
  • ColzieColzie Senior Member Posts: 470
    jjames wrote: »
    I'm putting my money on InfoComm to see some very cool stuff. I have no "inside" information, but I can't see AMX going past InfoComm to show some new things in the resi market

    It cracks me up how every upcoming trade show elicits the same hopeful enthusiasm. I am the same way, but starting to get a bit jaded after the lack of "wow" the last few years.

    Fingers crossed here, too.
  • ColzieColzie Senior Member Posts: 470
    So I was trying to update a TP file to handle the new 8400 firmware's battery indicators.

    My Setup Pages in TPD4 didn't have the separate charge/discharge levels that I could copy/paste to my file. I was running TPD4 2.11.0 Build 619 Border Version 8. I had recently (~1 month?) loaded the latest "support" files, hence "Border Version 8".

    I went ahead and downloaded TPDesign4 G4 Support Files (v. 2.11.20), installed, and now I have the new firmware pages in TPD4. Help->About still reports 2.11.0 Build 619 Border Version 8

    How do I know which version of support files TPD4 is running? I thought it was by the Border Version number, but obviously this isn't the case.
    The broken levels for battery and wireless signal are a pain too

    It is too bad in the "broken" situation the batter indicator would show while the panel is charging, but not show while the panel is running on battery power alone. It would have been slightly less painful the other way around.
  • Stephen BoltonStephen Bolton Junior Member Posts: 345
    Colzie wrote: »
    It is too bad in the "broken" situation the batter indicator would show while the panel is charging, but not show while the panel is running on battery power alone. It would have been slightly less painful the other way around.

    If you copy and paste a second battery indicator over each exsiting battery indicator and then change it's properties, you can fix it.

    Battery 1 therfore needs two indicators to handle the charge/discharge issue - address 0,242 and 0,234. Battery 2 needs 0,244 and 0,235.

    Fixed my panel like this.
  • REBUILD_EVENTREBUILD_EVENT Junior Member Posts: 127
    The problem is that the TP4 software built-in setup pages don't yet support the new SIGNAL LEVEL function that the new firmware offers. The TP4 Setup Pages that you can open via FILE, OPEN SYSTEM PAGE_TEMPLATE still has the old 'Link Quality' and 'Signal Strength' under the _ProtectedSecondaryID (Wireless Setup Page). The TP4 software needs to be updated to reflect the new function. While the panel is loaded with the new firmware, I noticed that the Signal Level is defined with 5 little boxes with the 0:81 level code definition. Maybe there is a back door way to recreate the signal level bar manually. I wish AMX would notify us on this new function and how to implement it since it compromises the old 'Link Quality' and 'Signal Strength' format of previous firmwares.

    Ricardo


    If you have not fixed this by now: the change is that the range low/high was 0/100 with the old firmware and is now 1/6.

    I'm not sure, but It seems that these levels are only updated when entering the setup page. anyone got an idea how to work around this problem???
  • RicardoSiqueiraRicardoSiqueira Junior Member Posts: 373
    I am trying the SIGNAL LEVEL progress bar again with the latest MVP8400 and even tough the new TP4 support files do allow you to copy the signal level bars to your TP4 file, they do not update until you enter the WIRELESS SETTINGS under PROTECTED SETUP and then exit SETUP to your regular TP4 touch panel pages. Any idea on how to solve this problem? I have a new project with 11 MVP5200s and the signal level info is a must to assist clients on knowing when the panel signal is getting low. I guess this issue needs to be addressed on the next firmware revision.
  • truetrue Junior Member Posts: 307
    Wireless signal levels work properly on 5200s. I am using them fine with the latest 5200 firmware.
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