Preset recall bug?

J.Luszczek

In a design I have some presets that recall only logic source states.
The problem is the buttons go wild when recalling these presets.
I was troubleshooting on site last week, but had to give up due to time constraints.

So I got back to the office and I build a new project with only 5 logic sources and nothing else to see if they work as intended and I messed up somewhere else in the design.
But no, it's acting the same with the simplest program.

I have 5 logic sources, linked in a radio group on a custom panel.
I create 5 presets- one for each logic source on.
When I recall those presets from the calendar, or manually from the tool bar, the buttons don't act like radio group anymore- there are two buttons on at the same time. When this is compiled and actually dumped in the processor, it flips out and skips all the presets in quick succession stopping at the last one.

I had this working as intended in previous software versions, but I guess one of the updates changed some logic handling. Can this be worked around, or fixed?
It's an important part of the user interface- it shows which preset is running at any given time.

Dan Lynch

It sounds like you may have the logic buttons included in the presets. If they're triggering the presets, and they're radio linked, then you don't want them to actually be included in the presets. The setup you're describing should work great.

Dan

J.Luszczek

The logic sources don't recall presets with their own states.
I use them to recall some volume presets, but they are not a part of the volume presets.

The bug seems to surface as soon as the logic source buttons are linked in a radio group. When the link is removed it all works, but I can't have multiple buttons on at the same time.

Dan Lynch

Double check your logic or send your file to tech support and have us check it. I created a design file with:
* a mixer which is in a parameter preset group
* 5 parameter presets which control the mixer
* 5 logic sources tied to preset triggers which trigger the parameter presets

It works fine with all of the logic sources tied together in a radio group both in offline mode and when loaded to the device.

The file -> LogicTriggeredPreset.zip

Dan

J.Luszczek

Dan,
You didn't create a separate set of presets for logic source states in this file.
That is the bug. When I added those presets to your file, it breaks.
I need that set of presets for calendar triggering.
If I straight trigger the volumes presets with calendar, there is no feedback to the user. The buttons need to come on on the user panel as the calendar triggers them.
Like I said before, I had this working before in a previous version or Architect.

Dan Lynch

So, you're using a preset to turn on a logic source which triggers a preset? That sounds completely whacky except I know why you're doing it. It's because of using the buttons to indicate which was recalled last. Ok.

The problem is that you're trying to execute a preset on 5 state variables which are all linked. That preset is changing them while the link is also trying to change them and things get weird. Simple enough to fix though.

Currently, you have a parameter preset group which contains all 5 buttons and you've created 5 presets for that group.

You need to create 5 parameter preset groups which each contain 1 button and create 1 preset for each group.

That way you won't be making the state variables try to do multiple things at one time and everything will be fine.

Dan

J.Luszczek

Thanks for the suggestion for work-around.

looked up my old file and I was doing it slightly different back then- using transparent region buttons over switches and OR logic for calendar.
I might go back to that arrangement, or try what you suggested.

In any case, hopefully this can be fixed in next release, as it's a simple way of automating presets with full UI feedback and manual access to the same presets.

Dan Lynch

Having linked parameters in a preset will cause unpredictable behaviour. That isn't something which can be \"fixed\" because it's not broken. That's just the way it works when you try to use two methods at the same time to change one SV. If the programmers were presented this \"problem\", their solution would be to disallow linked parameters within the same parameter preset group which is just the software forcing you to do what I suggested.

I prefer to avoid such rules in the software because they limit potential out-of-the-box solutions later.

Dan

J.Luszczek

\Dan Lynch\ wrote:

Having linked parameters in a preset will cause unpredictable behaviour. That isn't something which can be \"fixed\" because it's not broken. That's just the way it works when you try to use two methods at the same time to change one SV. If the programmers were presented this \"problem\", their solution would be to disallow linked parameters within the same parameter preset group which is just the software forcing you to do what I suggested.

I prefer to avoid such rules in the software because they limit potential out-of-the-box solutions later.

Dan

Isn't a source selector a linked radio group? These are perfectly fine being part of a preset.

Here is how I did the task last time around (I thought of the single pulse block as well). The logic source buttons were transparent and placed over some mute buttons (not in the signal flow) that were saved as part of volume presets. So to the users it looks like they are pressing those buttons, while they actually are touching overlays and triggering presets.

Dan Lynch

Actually, a source selector is not a radio linked group. It's a single SV with X possible values. A mute button has OFF or ON. A source selector has OFF or ONE or TWO or THREE or.... That has absolutely nothing to do with links.

REQUIREMENTS
1) Trigger 5 parameter presets with buttons on a control panel
2) Trigger the same 5 parameter presets with logic
3) Provide an indicator at all times showing which preset was last recalled

SOLUTION
1) Place 5 logic sources in logic and connect them to NOTHING
2) Create your parameter presets with the logic sources included in the group. Set the presets so that only one of the logic sources is ON for each preset.
3) Create 5 calendar objects and 5 preset triggers in logic to trigger these 5 presets
4) Grab the buttons for the logic sources and place them on the control panel.
5) Go to the design tree and drag the 5 presets onto the control panel.
6) Make the preset buttons invisible and place them on top of the logic souce buttons.

DONE

That's all you need to do. You now have an indicator on the control panel which will change state without being touched by the user but will also change state when the user touches it and will trigger preset recalls with no problem.

Dan

J.Luszczek

Dan,
Your solution is a variation on what I did last year - as shown in the pictures.
I used a dummy mixer object for its mute buttons- you used dummy logic sources.
I used transparent region buttons over top the mute buttons, you made the preset buttons invisible and placed it over top of logic buttons.
By the way, how do you make a preset button invisible? I would make and drag a transparent png on it. Is there a quicker/better way?

(EDIT):
The one bad thing about this method is, if you forget to change the state of the \"indicator\" button before editing and saving a preset the whole display gives a wrong feedback to the user. I've done it before, where I adjusted the volumes and saved the preset, but forgot to make the correct button \"on\". I loaded the design and of course the indicator was wrong- it would show \"overnight\" even though the recalled preset was \"morning\".
So these are the pitfalls of \"working around tools\".

Maybe the programmers could treat a preset group like they treat a source selector? We already can drag a preset group on a panel and have it appear like a combo box.

If I create a bunch of buttons I can select them all and drag a source selector over the group, then assign source selector state to each button.
I wish we could do the same with preset group. It would make our lives a bit easier- fewer things to think about when programming panels.

Dan Lynch

\J.Luszczek\ wrote:

By the way, how do you make a preset button invisible?

You're going to hate this answer... Right click on the preset button and hit Properties. At the top of the properties list, change the \"Visible\" property to \"No\".

I warned ya! And, no that option wasn't always there, but yes it has been around for a little while. Doh! It's even more fun when I find stuff like that during a class, \"So, you see that we need to do blahblahblah because London Architect doesn't allow you to... huh? What the heck? How long has THAT button been there?\"

\J.Luszczek\ wrote:

As an audio guy I wish I could put all kinds of cool switches and presets and a lot of flexibility on the panel, but then I set myself up for customers not being happy with the system because they don't want to think about it. They have about 10 seconds to adjust sound if needed and move on to other things like fussy customers.

Amen

Dan

J.Luszczek

\Dan Lynch\ wrote:

And, no that option wasn't always there, but yes it has been around for a little while.

Dan

I didn't notice it because I stopped using direct preset buttons long time ago- exactly because of their limited usability on a user panel.
Now with the \"visible\" property they might get more use.

Graham

When you drag a preset on to a panel you get a vector button. However, you can have direct preset recalls on any type button you want. Just add the button to the panel first, then drag the preset on to that button.

Graham