DRPA w/ BBE 362 Sonic Maximizer

DBJunkie

I'm getting a very bright sound from my PA system. With certain songs, my Cerwin-Vegas sound like they are screaming. I use it for DJ use. Here is a list of my setup.

2 - 15\" 2-way Cerwin Vega speakers
2 - 18\" Celestion custom sub cabinets
Crown Powerbase 2 (highs)
Hafler P7000 (lows)
BBE 362 Sonic Maximizer
Driverack PA
Denon DN-x500 Mixer

I don't know the model of the Cerwin-Vegas off of the top of my head and I'm a t work so I can't check. I can say that they are approximately 10 years old with big horn tweeters in them. The enclosures themselves are rather large too with a flared face. I don't know the frequency response with them either. The sub cabs I built are designed to go down to 35Hz. I don't know that it matters but I also have 2 Technics 1200 turntables and a Denon DND-4500 Dual CD player.

I also wasn't sure of the order to route the signal from my mixer. Right now it goes from my mixer, to the BBE, to the drive rack. I've tried using the RTA mic with the maximizer on and off. I don't know if I should try to EQ manually instead. I also tried playing around with the crossover points and gains but I'm pretty `new to the Driverack, I've been running the CVs full range until I got the subs, Hafler, BBE, and Driverack a few weeks ago. Any help and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Cory Cooper

I am sure Gadget will concur...I would take the BBE out of the loop. Having it inline before the DRPA, you have already colored the sound. Any RTAing you may do would be \"tainted\" by the BBE. Having it inline after the DRPA would skew the RTA results that were set.

When you say bright...do you mean lots of high-end, the tops are far louder than the subs, etc? It may just be an incorrect crossover/gain structure setup.

As for the amps, it looks like you are underpowered. Depending on the impoedance of your cabs, you should look to have at least 1.5-2x the power rating of your speaks.

C

Gadget

Hey Coop!

Junkie, Coop's right. Loose the BBE. Follow the link above to the \"old forum\"
http://www.driverack.com/drug/
Where you'll fing the 'tutorials' section
http://www.driverack.com/drug/forum_sta ... forumid=24
All through there and in the other sections of the live sound 101 and other lists there are threads you should read. Particularly the 'new indoor RTA method' and Mike Kovachs white paper on the auto eq. You will note that if you are allowing the DRPA to EQ the system indoors that it isn't very accurate on the lows and hi's. The reasons are many and varried but in a nutshell reflected sound reeks havock on the RTA process. It will crank the highs and squash the lows. Please read all that is there so you can get an overview of how the system works and the best way to get the most from your system. Then come back with questions, OK?
Gadget

DBJunkie

Thanks guys,

Cory, when I say bright I mean lots of high end, not the volume difference between the tops and the subs. Im playing a lot of techno through the systems and the hi hats, cymbals, and some vocals pierce my ears. I have played around with the crossover gain and this helped.

After reading your replies, I ran a new RTA with the sonic maximizer off and the EQ at the \"C\" setting (more bass, less treble) and it sounds good now. I was able to activate the maximizer adding additional lo end and left the process setting barely on to compensate for the EQ and it sounds great. Thanks a lot guys. I've never heard my Cerwin-Vegas sound better. I will probably remove the BBE from the loop as suggested.

I guess I'm kinda under powered but right now, but I can't even come close to getting the LEDs on the drive rack more than half-way up. It's really loud now. My tops handle 500 Watts RMS and the Subs are rated at 600 RMS. They are both running at 8 ohms . I think the Crown puts out 325 RMS and the Hafler puts out 1000 watts bridged mono @ 8 ohms. The subs (8 ohm) are connected in series.

Most venues I will be playing at would be small to medium size bars. I got the subs because bass is more important than overall volume. I wanted it to be clear with full bass and I have that now. I never had issues witht he Crown crapping out on me at a gig but the Hafler is my partners so I can't speak for that.

Thanks again.

Mike McNany

Glad you got your sound improved and how you want it.

A minor point but you need it straightened out. You likely have your subs connected in electrical PARALLEL (NOT series) with the positive connected to positive and negative to negative using the ganged/paralleled inputs on the subs. THAT makes a 4 ohm load for your bridged power amp. A two wire single cable connect from speaker to speaker is still electrically paralleled. FEW PA speaker components ever get placed electrically in series, unlike guitar cabinets. Dave Rat's concert subs are the exception.

Mike McNany

Cory Cooper

Yo G! Knew you'd be along. Hope all is well for you.

DBJ - Yeah, the crossover gain you adjusted is what I meant. Seems you got more of a handle on the excessive brightness by removing the BBE and re-RTAing. As Gadget said, the RTA can accentuate the highs greatly when done indoors or in a smaller enclosed area.

Check Mike's point as well...proper connection of the subs is crucial. It would drop the load down to 4 ohms, but the specs for the Hafler don't state support for 4 ohm bridged/mono mode, only 8. It does show 500W @ 4 ohms stereo however.

With your speaks (what are the models?):

Tops = 325W @ 8 ohms (Crown PB-2) into 500W 8 ohm cabs
Subs = 350W @ 8 ohms (Hafler P7000) into 600W 8 ohm cabs

You're underpowered. It'll work, but you won't realize the full potential of the speaks/system. It's worse to be underpowered than overpowered.

Hope we're helping...

Gadget

Coop,
No man, life is havin a shot at kickin my ass... I'm so low HELL looks up from here..
G

djfletch

DBJunkie said he built his own subs. If he used a 4 ohm speaker in each cabinet he would be correct in hooking them up in series. Otherwise if they are 8 ohm he definitely should go the parallel route. Haflers have a reputation for their ability to power low impedances without a hitch. It sounds like he may be using the same CV tops as I have which are V-37D's with an 18\" cone and large horn. If so they are great cabs and I have had mine for 20 years and love them. My subs are also CV folded horns model B-36A. I power them with twin Hafler DH-500's and never had any problems with them either. I've always received compliments on the sound quality wherever I've played. Good luck!