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help with EQing please?

ragga1ragga1 Posts: 13
edited September 2006 in PA General Discussion
Hi there,

Could you possible give me a run down on which frequencies I need to set so that I can get a nice clean, chest thumping kick? Would I need to set this on a custom EQ on WIZARD? Or can I use one of the preset EQ's and just adjust the frequencies from there? We use a Roland R70 drum machine, using a layered 909 kick (layered as in 2 X 909 kicks together).
Just in case you've forgotten, we use a PEAVEY GPS3400 running 2 X PEAVEY QW218's for our lows. Any help would be appreciated as right now it sounds good, but I would like the kick to be more of a chest thumper and not just a loud low sound? And the bass guitar to sound a bit cleaner. Just sounds a bit . . . .I believe the term is. . . muddy?

Thanks again....

Keep jammin'

Comments

  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    hmmm,
    Well, I guess I need more info.. what are you currently diong EQ wise? Did you auto EQ? if so you will need to tell me what you did, just how you did it.oo many variables so be specific.
    Gadget
  • sorry for being so vague? We've been playing around with different preset eq's and I've tried dialling in some eq settings but weve not found the kick sound that were really after. Every time we either use a preset or custom eq setting on the drpa, were still finding ourselves having to try and season the sound with the eq on the mixer desk which I think we shouldnt have to? Am I right in saying this? I always thought that the eq on the mixer desk should always be 12 o'clock? (within reason) But our eq knobs are everywhere which tells me straight away that the eq on the drpa is not right.
    We mostly use a flat eq on the drpa and use the eq knobs on the mixer desk...please excuse my ignorance?
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Ok,
    Here's the deal... you are under powered... these things can take some serious power.. the tops. 5600 watts! and they want 3db of headroom over that! the subs... 6400 watts... per cab!

    So lets do this... Set a HPF of 50 hz.. @ BW 18. set a 120 hz LPF @ 24 DB / oct L/R(Linkwitz Riley) filter. Set an HPF of 120 hz for the lo mids again @ L/R 24. Set an LPF of the Lo [email protected] 1200hz @ 24db / oct L/R. Set the HF horn @ HPF 1200 hz, @ L/R 24, and it will go to out... that means that there is no LPF available on the HF outs

    so, we have set the subs to go from 50hz to 120hz, we have set the mids to go from 120hz to 1200 hz and the horns to go from 1200 hz to out...

    Now, delay the mids 8 ms and the horn .4ms (you will have to get as close as possible, I do not have the time to check out the exact delays available..

    You will find a 7 db dip @ 1200 hz, and a 5 db dip @ 100 hz that extends from 60 hz to 150 hz... these you will need to take care of with the PEQ's.

    Now do an auto EQ pass... note! if indoors use my \"new indoor auto EQ on the tops only... make sure you are back far enough to get mids and horns... tip the speakers as far as is safely possible... outdoors, 1 stack about 6-8 feet back on axis aimed between the top 15 and the horn...
    Flat response, hi precision.

    Store that in a preset location as a pure flat response.. now you can set up a preset you can modify... and sweeten... flatten all adjustments the auto EQ made below 175 hz...I suggest 80 hz boost of 3- 5 db...that is the low resonant freq of the kick... Be carefull what HF boosts you allow, I would like you to go to the Peavey site and look up the tech notes and find CD horn EQ, you are probably missing those additions for your horns, but in a nutshell, boost the Hf with a high shelf, to compensate for the HF rolloff of the CD horn...

    I must go but try these and ask more questions as you get up to speed...
    gadget
  • you are indeed the man!!! All hail the great Gadget!!! I'll take these details with me and try them out. No doubt it will get me closer to what were wanting to achieve? I agree that we are underpowering the system and we'll look at that in the near future. Thanks again for all your help.....
  • ok, last night at band practise when I dialled in those numbers you gave me, it made such a huge difference to the overall sound of the speakers. We kept flicking through the other user presets and comparing it with what I had just dialled in and the difference was HUGE!! Thanks again for that!! I think I got lost at the PEQ stage though and I kept the overall eq on the drpa flat?
    It all sounded good, the kick was nice and fat, well, from what we could hear that is, you know being in the garage and all and not being able to crank it up too loud? But suffice to say that the difference was clear. The bass guitar sounded VERY, VERY nice indeed. Nice and smooth sound. It was all on the up until we started singing into the mics and it sounded VERY muddy!! No clarity at all. Worse than our previous user presets that we had been using. As I mentioned earlier, the eq remains flat. Is this the cause of it? If so, what frequencies would I need to boost so as to get the clarity thats needed for the mics? The instruments sound really good as a result to the change in the xover settings, but it made the mics sound really muddy...terrible!! yuck!!
    Also, how should I set the feedback controller so as to get the full benefit of it? We had the specialist guy in the store set it for us, but were still getting some feedback coming through. What would you recommend?
    And finally, we agreed that we were underpowering our system. Would you recommend that we increase the number of amps that we run? For example, GPS900 X 2 for highs, GPS2600 x 2 for mids and GPS3400 X 2 for lows? Any help would be appreciated.....
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Yo down under! sounds like a ballance problem. Did you do a gain structure as per the back of the manual? Once you have doe that, then play some well recorded music like Steely Dan, or Toto, or something and use the amp volume controls to set the balance of the individual components... That is to say that you turn the loudest thing down (I believe you are running the mids too loud thats why it sound muddy) and so on till the sound coming out is nicely ballanced... that means that the hi's are nice and crisp, the guitars and toms are nicely represented, and the subs are kickin.

    The trick with the gain structure is to get everything clipping at the same point.. turn the amps down slightly.. 3-6 db, and mark those points.. that is the most those ammps should ever be turned up! they can be turned down.. not up. So, when you go to ballance the system, afterwards, start by turning DOWN what is loudest. Once you have a ballance and this assumes that the EQ on the mixer is flat, the signl is in the design center and below clipping.

    Once you do this the sound should be much better. As for your questions on the mixer EQ I do whatever is necessary to get the sound I want. I sometimes have to use more Eq than I would like..but then I have to consider the source.

    The FBX unit..select live, loud music, 6 fixed, and 6 roaming live lift after 10 seconds... that should do it. turn all mics on, get them up to show volume, slowly raise the volume of the mains till the first one set.. then farther up till the second sets, and so on. then turn it down to the normal volume, and it should never feed back.

    I do recommend that if you have the RTA mic, that you set a medium precision and use FLAT preset. indoors is not a good way unless you do the tops only and use the new indoor autoEQ method..

    http://www.driverack.com/drug/view_thre ... d_id=41419

    If you can do one stack, outdoors away from all reflective surfaces, then fine thats a good.

    keep me informed
    Gadget
  • thanks for that. I'll take what you've suggested, give it a go and keep you posted....
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