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drpa setup

jwdrumsjwdrums Posts: 6
edited February 2007 in PA Configuration Wizard
I've been reading for two weeks on here and my brain is smoking. I'm not sure what i'm doing wrong but whenever I run the auto eq with the rta mic it really cuts all my low frequencies.(we have tried it in three different rooms with same result)
My setup is
Mackie 1604vlz to drpa stereo
drpa stereo out high to qsc rmx 2450
drpa mono out low to qsc rmx 2450
2450 high to 2 yamaha 215iv cabs
2450 low to 2 behringer b1800x subs

we used the unit this weekend with ok results but I think it could be better. we still had some feedback without getting real loud
I'm reading that I may need to set up the peq before using the rta for auto eq? what would be my recommended cross-over and peq settings.
I cant find the frequency charts for these speakers. or should i try something different.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Comments

  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Well you didn't read the right stuff...read the tutorials and user submitted white papers here...
    http://www.driverack.com/drug/

    What is happening is called modes...they set up in rooms and cause doubling of the bass energy that the DRPA tries to kill with EQ.. remember you cannot EQ A ROOM... that would take a bulldozer.. LOL...

    you will read that you should only let the DRPA EQ the frequencies from 170 hz through 700 hz... the higher freqs reflect off things and cancel causing the DRPA to BOOST them... Itas really not as easy as you would think.. or as automatic... If you search my posts on the other site you will find VOLUMES on AUTO EQ...I'll look at the rest of your post in a while...
    Gadget
  • I've been reading more in the old forum, so i'm taking I need to get the peq setup right so that the geq is only trying to correct the different venues instead of the whole system.
    So, what would be the proper way to setup the peq? By ear,or should I take the system outside, and use the peq to get a flat response from the auto eq. then once saved I should be able to have better results in these rooms, Right?
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Alright, your system Redux....

    First off you didn't include any of what you ARE doing so that we might see what you might be doing right...and WRONG...First off let me say that you are using \"B\" level components and perhaps expecting \"A\" level sound? You included NO information on what you were doing to get the \"OK results\"...

    Without knowing ANYTHING here is what I'd have done... you compare and see what you think...
    1. Set up a 2X3 with all custom in the wizard, GEQ, Linked stereo all custom
    2. The RMX for the subs is then Mono'ed
    3. Hipass the subs @ 50hz BW18, LPF the subs around 100 hz @ LR24
    4. Hipass the Yamaha's @ 100hz(or whatever the subs ended up @)
    5. There is no LPF for the Hi outs...
    6. you may need to go as high as 120 hz to optimize the power ballance issue...
    7. Yamaha's to the Hi outs, BEH's to the Left Mono out. ( I think these are suspect... the BEH subs...thats why I specified the 50 hz HPF)
    8.delay the tops 8 ms )or so) sweep thee delay and see where the sound seems to tighten up...
    9. The Peq's are for speaker tuning and are set when you understand sound propagation and the effects of a room on the speakers... and vise versa...your better off to set the system as close to flat... excite the room as little as possible, and live with the limitations you find...for each room...

    The DRPA and 260 give you enough power to be dangerous...and a license to MURDER sound....if you don't know what your doing you can do more HARM than good... the beauty of this world is we have the internet and a license to be informed and powerful or miss-informed and dangerous... read and be informed... The information is there for your perusal... check out the \" former forum\" site above for a wealth of info...
    Gadget
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Ok ... you said that:
    \"so i'm taking I need to get the peq setup right so that the Geq is only trying to correct the different venues instead of the whole system. \"
    Kind of...... the PEQ sets the system up to be essentially FLAT.... then the speakers have less effect on the rooms sound till it becomes OVER stimulated...
    You cannot EQ a room... its IMPOSSIBLE... (without a bulldozer) you CAN only equalize the speaker system relative to the room...and the more you EQ the LESS effective the treatment will become...Speaker PLACEMENT and aiming will do more to rob the room of its effects than all the EQ you could EVER do...(get the energy on the crowd)the Driverack gives you tools that can either be used to improve your sound... or reduce it to rubble...
    Gadget
  • gadget,
    first offI would like to thank you for all your help. Even though my questions might not show I have been reading quite a bit on the old forum. I just have a hard time picking which opinions are best, yours seem to be the most educated. Where did all the members go? The other forum had numerous users with alot of info. You seem to be the only one posting in here, I can understand why you answer with aggrevation and criticisim, but remember we have to learn somewhere. I do have a good Knowledge of PA equipment but am having a hard time fiquring out the driverack. Just thought someone may have a few pointers for my setup or situation.

    And my results came from
    [email protected],[email protected]
    [email protected]
    I used the peq to kick up the 63hz level +2.0db on the subs with a fairly narrow freq. I reduced 125hz about 1.5db on them due to the crossover point.
    Didn't use it on the highs
    no delay on my setup but I will try it
    I did tailor the low and high end of the geq by ear, but if I'm doing this what advantages does the drivrack have other than space?
    I know it's not top notch equipment but we are just a working bar band and were hoping the driverack would help make the best of it.
    What would you recommend \"bang for buck\" the best speaker choice for our situation? (looking to get smaller lighter mains and better subs).
    once again thanks
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    What kind of buck are you wanting to bang with?
    Flatten the speakers with the post PEQ's outdoors (no reflections) or with Gary's (AKA Gadget) indoor method. The results will be as accurate as you can get. Set up 1 top and one sub. Align the cones of the woofer in each cab. Set up the RTA mic up mid way between the horn and the woofer of the top cab back about 10 ft from the speakers. With gain structure setup prior for each amp (important) set the crossover up as you see fit. Un-plug the speakers. Turn the limiters on @+20 Over easy off for now. Send a pink signal through the DRPA from your board (generator or CD). Increase level until either of the amps is clipping. If the tops amp is clipping, increase the crossover gain of the low amp up to clipping, or visa-versa. Now, with both amps clipping and your board just below clipping bring down the limiter until the amps no longer clip.
    Kill the signal from the board and plug in your single stack back in.
    Do the auto EQ Wizard. Start with low precision (its quicker) and Flat curve. When it's done, check what it did 1st in the area around the crossover point. If there is a boost there, either change the the slopes or over lap the points (or both), If there is a cut, then widen the points, etc. Once that problem is fixed by re-doing the wizard, (flatten the GEQ each time before re-starting) select the widest areas of concern and attack them by mimicing the GEQ with the post PEQ's for the top and sub. Keep doing this until the wizard is as flat as you are happy with. Hint: write down all changes (freq, Q, and level of each filter) because sometimes you'll make 1 little tweek and \"what thu?\". Once done Save, Save, Save.

    Hope this clears up a bit. Once you get the feel for what the DRPA will do for you, you'll never look back. Except to get a 260

    Gadget will probably respond as well. If he contradicts me, go with him. His posts are spot on.

    DRA

    PS - If you have to do much with the crossover point, you may have to re-do the gains and limiters.
  • well it's not really a budget issue, but no reason spending $2000 per cab. for what would do just as well for less. I understand you get what you pay for but like I said we're just a bar band. I'd like to go with 15\" woofer horn setup on top and a single 18 on bottom of each side. also i'm seeing alot more people running 4 subs and 2 high packs is this a better setup?
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Yo...
    I've perhaps been doing this for too long.. I admit once I answer the same question for the umpteenth time( that would probably be 1000 + times BTW... I have the tenancy to get testy if things are BAD in my life... No excuse...BUT there was NO-ONE when I was learning... only past posts...so I HAD to do my homework, and play with the unit... many of the things I have been pressing I have developed because no-one else had...or I took what info was there and took it to another level.. so when people come here and seem to have not done their homework I sometimes get hard on them... believe me.. when I got here you DIDN'T ask a question unless you were well versed on sound principles, and theory.. and KNEW what the Driverack modules were , what they did, and how to implement them...

    Bang for the buck...Yorkville U15/U215... the unity horn is amazing.. if you want the REAL DEAL get the Danley Sound : http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/DANLEY_sh50.htm... he also has the BEST low end... but again Yorkville has great subs (http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?t ... t=2&id=125) (http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?t ... t=2&id=126) (http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?t ... t=2&id=152) and the EAW SB1000 subs...and so does Peavey in the QW series...but you NEED POWER... big power to implement these technologies...

    Perhaps what I've been getting at is that there is a level of competence that goes along with this level of technology... and there isn't any easy answers... You either are committed to the path or you fall by the wayside...So if you don't do the work I will have little patience when you want the answers... is this too much to ask? As for the others... well, they gave up on the level of questions years ago... I think I've shown remarkable patience under the circumstances...
    gadget
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    Gadget is right, Yorkville has some really nice sounding cabinets, I have Elite cabs and LOVE them. I lean towards 12's if using subs, for the vocal clarity, but 15's do give you more growl.

    Gadget can be short at times. But if you ask a question that is unique or that references another post, that will let him know you have studied the forum(s). Your question has been asked and answered a lot, so I try to jump in and answer the ones I can, 1) to keep him around (if he leaves where all in trouble and that almost happened several months back) and 2) to build up my knowledge and memory of things that I sometimes ignore.

    There is so much information on the old forum. Whatever you have a question about, search it. \"speaker tuning\", \"crossover points\", \"compression\", \"feedback wizard\", what ever.

    HEY Gadget, hang in there dude. We need ya.

    DRA
  • once again guys all of your help and tips are greatly appreciated, I'll check on some new cabs, and do some more homework.
    Thanks
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