Thump

yalc

Does anyone know what is the best way to pink a room when dealing with low volume in a small venue? I've had the DRPA for a few months and usually have no problem with getting really good sound and awsome low end thump at higher volume levels. I find however when we are required to turn it down I loose all my bottom which is not suprising but I can't seem to get it back with any quality. When I pink at a low volume it does'nt seem to help. I've tried all the different response curves and such, I do not like the sub synth at all. Any ideas? I have been skipping the Pinking an setting it up by ear. That is what I was doing before the DRPA, I bought it, I want to use it.

CLAY

Gadget

Set the response for flat and set up a preset, look up the \"new indoor method\" available in the \"Former forum home\" and perform the Auto EQ and store that preset. It will come in handy in high reflection situations, and as a comparison for what a room does to the auto EQ (when you can actually do it that is). If you have a spare aux send you might want to consider trying aux fed subs for that purpose, should work great.
Gadget

Dra

You may have just been lucky the other times. After you pink the room, flatten all frequencies below 150 and above 630. Tweek those by ear. I know that's not what you want to hear, sorry. You may be dealing with a psycho-accoustic situation (you know the ol' loudness button). Try turning down the tops amp(s) then raising the overall output. Keep doing this until you get what you need.

DRA

yalc

Will you elaborate on aux fed subs please? With a seperate crossover along with the DRPA that I'm running 3 way mono?
Is this for independant volume control of the subs from the board?
Thanks
Clay

yalc

Also, can you recommend some good low mid cabs to go on top of the labsubs?
I was just doing some more research on the labsubs (almost ready to start constuction) And I read that they are designed to work in pairs i.e. minimum of 4 total cabs.I don't want or need that much subwoofer. I plan to build 2 that is, 1 per side. Will that work? Should I build somthing else?

Clay.

yalc

Can anyone help with any of these questions? I will appreciate any input.
Clay

Dra

Gadget's the resident exert for both these topics.

DRA

OHHHH, Gadget?

Gadget

Hello.. wanting me?

Hi guys... Oh boy there are lots of choices for tops.. give me a budget to work with...the top of my top choice id Danley Sound speakers not the most expensive... but surely the best in most price brackets. I have some plans for some proprietary cabinets that are very impressive also. Tom Danley was the designer of the Labsubs BTW

I use 2 labs in my primary bar.. but with 4 you get eggroll.. actually in groups of 4 they go all the way to the 20 hz region.. but are still impressive in single double form also.. What I do is put the subs together on one side of the stage and and tripod the other side speaker.. this gives superior bass and eliminates the comb filtering.. then you only need to watch out for the 3 1/2 foot boundary cancellation rule..
Gadget

Dra

Gadget, when you put subs together on one side of a stage, say 30 - 40 feet... Does that affect the alignment delay from one side to the other? At what point (distance) would it and where should the focal point be?

DRA

Gadget

With the lab subs and my Yorkville elite tops I use about 18 ms of delay, but thats only the 10.5 foot horn and propagation delay of 7.5 ms. With one speaker sitting on a toy subs no delay other than that is necessary.
I lay the subs on their sides and then I can aim them a little also. Delay determination is a job for a sweep audio generator and it also helps determine the crossover delay and backline offset also

G

Gadget

With the lab subs and my Yorkville elite tops I use about 18 ms of delay, but thats only the 10.5 foot horn and propagation delay of 7.5 ms. With one speaker sitting on a toy subs no delay other than that is necessary.
I lay the subs on their sides and then I can aim them a little also. Delay determination is a job for a sweep audio generator and it also helps determine the crossover delay and backline offset also

G

yalc

So far so good,
As far as budget I'd like to stay around $300 each, I'll spend more if I have to. I saw some nice little Cerwin Vega INT-152 and JBL JRX-115 for around $300. Is that DJ crap? I noticed you can buy a 2 way 15\" for about the same as the cost to build one, Do you concur?
My plan is to go with 12\" 2 way and then stack as many as reqiured (for the venue size) across the top of the subs to create an open ended design situation. So whats better in this case 12\", 15\", 10\"? Also thinking maybe 4 way, a sub then a 15\" low mid on top of that and the 12\" or 15\" 2 way on top. What do you think? Right now I am using any where from 1 to 3 single 15\" EV Eliminator per side with 1 or 2 Yamaha sw115 tops per side. It will be a few months before I get the labs done but I want to be able to use whatever tops I have with the labs (obviously)
Can you elaborate on the aux fed subs as well? (how, why)
thanks again G.

Dra

Are you saying that a 18ms delay for the top stacked on the subs and a 30ms(or whatever) delay for the stand alone top is unneccessry? The 18ms delay is adequate for each top cab in your application?

DRA

Gadget

Ok, first DRA
The subs are omni and there is no need to delay for the stand alone top... The 17.5 actual ms delay is for the tops to the subs I have a slight delay also from mid to horn.. and the whole system is backed up to the drum monitor in the backline...15 feet...

Aux fed subs are explained in detail on the \"former forum\" available above and in the tutorials section. They allow you to run only those inputs through the subs that you want in the subs.

Don't wast your time on that DJ junk.. not worth it, and there is NO way they will be able to keep up with the Labsubs...Those eliminators are only fair but better than either the JRX or CW's...

For DJ work 15's are ok if live vocals are a big thing 10's or 12's are better but you would need as you thought a lo mid cab.. I have a good design for one of those too...(SURPRISE)... and no you cannot buy a speaker as good as you can build for the money...My new lightweight 12\" neo tops sport 2\" 40X60 horns and 300/600watt 12 \" speakers response to around 70 hz and 45 lbs or so... and they are gorgeous sounding, and loud as hell.. efficient.. about $350-450 for the components and are better than my McCauley and B&C loaded OAP speakers that cost $1200 each... The B&C driver alone is worth more than that...

Gadget

my.02
Gadget

yalc

O.K Gadget,
Now were gettin' somwhere. How do I get ahold of the low mid cab plans and those \"Proprietary\" 12's that you have. Heck I'll even stencil your name or logo on them if you'd like. I was considering building some Fane front loabed 15's I found on line for a low mid, I guess they're ment to be front loaded subs but I thoght they would work in a low mid application. I was also looking at the fane 2 way trapesoids. I keep looking at all this DJ grade stuff cuz that's what every one around here has always used, Including me, so with your help I can kick my DJ habit and start rockin' with the big dogs. I'm gonna be the first kid on the block with a real PA system and the envy of all. I don't have a problem spending 400 bucks or so on the tops, they sound like they're pretty awsome Yes Yes, I like the whole idea so how do I get the plans for your tops, If thats what you recommend and plans also for the low mid cabs you mentioned.
thank you thank you thank you.
Clay.

yalc

BTW, I'm using the The eliminators to get by in lieu of the crappy front loaded subs I was using untill you pointed out the error of my ways. Soon I shall have the Labs and all will be well. The eliminators may not be all that but compared to the front loaded 18's (POS) They are so much cleaner, tighter and lower than the front loaded 18's it's absolutley amazing.
Clay.

Gadget

Clay Email me so I have yours too..
tzone42@paulbunyan.net
G

yalc

Hey Gadget,
What happened to you? Are you still lurking about?

CLAY

Gadget

Sorry dude.. been really busy and my son took the plans for the tops and I haven't been able to get him to bring them back up.. he's in the twin cities. But the mid bass cabs are indeed the Fane ones using the Emenence Omega 15's. These little suckers are INCREDIBLE all by themselves! and can be used as stand alone subs for smaller indoor gigs. The drivers for the tops are the P-Audio SN12B and SD750 N with PH2723 horn. These are all available through Loudspeakers Plus (tell Jay I sent you) 847-963-0725.

Gadget

yalc

Gadget,
That is so cool. I just aquired 2 Omega 15's I got such a good deal on them I could'nt pass it up. My luck usually does'nt run that well. I'll probably take your advise on the tops as well so thanks for that. If you do end up getting the plans back for your \"Proprietary\" tops I would be interested. As always, Thanks for the advise and try to get a vacation.
Clay.