FIRST TIME USER .... DON'T WANT TO BE A LOSER
MIKE
Posts: 5
Hello to all!
I come from high end home audio and theater...so this PA / Sound Reinforcement has been a sort of trial and error after as much research time and spending allows.... so please bear with me.
Okay...I've got the Driverack PA up and running and it sounded pretty good this past weekend....but now for the real test.
I have an install situation in a restaurant / upscale club setting.
My new configuration includes:
3 - MRX518S JBL SUBS
3- CROWN 602XLSD IN BRIDGED MODE
4- YAMAHA S115V MAINS
2- CROWN 402XLSD IN BRIDGED MODE TO EACH PAIR OF YAMI'S
1- MACKIE SRM450 POWERED SPEAKER AS DJ MONITOR
1- DRIVERACK PA
1- YAMAHA 16 CHANNEL MIXER
Now for the questions.....
1. I am not able to select \"Bridged\" in the s-up wzrd for the 602's driving the subs....it only locks on \"Normal\" and gives me a setting of 72% I think. WHY?
2. I am running the subs as mono summed...and temporarily splitting 1 XLR output via a Y adapter to connect the extra 602 and sub. (Very short XLR patch of 3' to each 602). Am I okay to do this, or do I need a RANE SM26 unit as a splitter?
3. I don't know a thing about the PARA EQ, and next to nothing about the COMP and LIMITER, but want to protect my speakers from my dumb @$$ DJ's who constantly blow them up. HOW DO I BEST PROTECT THEM? ( I did set the gain structure of the system with a LIMITER setting of 4 for last weekend, with the DJ's patching their mixer into my Yamaha mixer, which has already been set up via matching gains with the rest of the system, and I think that saved the pair of Yami's last weekend, because he had his mixer pegged into the red, and the channel mixers cranked up on my Yamaha mixer until it was into the red, but the amps were barely flashing red.....so I got lucky once) But I'm not sure on the low high pass / low pass settings for the subs though!
4. My subs are built in under the DJ booth, and the Yami Mains are on a 12' high wall facing the dance floor area, but about 20' and 30' away. I don't have an option of mono feeding the Yami's as I understand it,(I think the same RANE SM26 if needed for the subs could also mono sum the highs and mids) so they are grouped together as LR and RL in parrallel, so as to get good sound distribution on the entire floor. (Overall main area is 45' X 24') How do I set the time delay to get the best system unification?
5. How do I mono sum the Mids for the 1 Mackie being used as a monitor?
6. Other than my ears, (which I trust about 90%), how can I G EQ the space. Brick floors, wood ceilings, plastered walls.....I already have the highs attenuated if you can imagine :?
7. What's the winning number for the Powerball Lotto this weekend?
( If I win I'll fly each of you 'pros' down here to sunny southern California for a Golf and Driverack PA setting party!) I know it gets @#&^^% cold where Gadget lives 8)
Okay... that's the first round of questions....and I'm not afraid to play with crossover points and such to tighten the sound even more....so thanks for your time.
Mike
I come from high end home audio and theater...so this PA / Sound Reinforcement has been a sort of trial and error after as much research time and spending allows.... so please bear with me.
Okay...I've got the Driverack PA up and running and it sounded pretty good this past weekend....but now for the real test.
I have an install situation in a restaurant / upscale club setting.
My new configuration includes:
3 - MRX518S JBL SUBS
3- CROWN 602XLSD IN BRIDGED MODE
4- YAMAHA S115V MAINS
2- CROWN 402XLSD IN BRIDGED MODE TO EACH PAIR OF YAMI'S
1- MACKIE SRM450 POWERED SPEAKER AS DJ MONITOR
1- DRIVERACK PA
1- YAMAHA 16 CHANNEL MIXER
Now for the questions.....
1. I am not able to select \"Bridged\" in the s-up wzrd for the 602's driving the subs....it only locks on \"Normal\" and gives me a setting of 72% I think. WHY?
2. I am running the subs as mono summed...and temporarily splitting 1 XLR output via a Y adapter to connect the extra 602 and sub. (Very short XLR patch of 3' to each 602). Am I okay to do this, or do I need a RANE SM26 unit as a splitter?
3. I don't know a thing about the PARA EQ, and next to nothing about the COMP and LIMITER, but want to protect my speakers from my dumb @$$ DJ's who constantly blow them up. HOW DO I BEST PROTECT THEM? ( I did set the gain structure of the system with a LIMITER setting of 4 for last weekend, with the DJ's patching their mixer into my Yamaha mixer, which has already been set up via matching gains with the rest of the system, and I think that saved the pair of Yami's last weekend, because he had his mixer pegged into the red, and the channel mixers cranked up on my Yamaha mixer until it was into the red, but the amps were barely flashing red.....so I got lucky once) But I'm not sure on the low high pass / low pass settings for the subs though!
4. My subs are built in under the DJ booth, and the Yami Mains are on a 12' high wall facing the dance floor area, but about 20' and 30' away. I don't have an option of mono feeding the Yami's as I understand it,(I think the same RANE SM26 if needed for the subs could also mono sum the highs and mids) so they are grouped together as LR and RL in parrallel, so as to get good sound distribution on the entire floor. (Overall main area is 45' X 24') How do I set the time delay to get the best system unification?
5. How do I mono sum the Mids for the 1 Mackie being used as a monitor?
6. Other than my ears, (which I trust about 90%), how can I G EQ the space. Brick floors, wood ceilings, plastered walls.....I already have the highs attenuated if you can imagine :?
7. What's the winning number for the Powerball Lotto this weekend?
( If I win I'll fly each of you 'pros' down here to sunny southern California for a Golf and Driverack PA setting party!) I know it gets @#&^^% cold where Gadget lives 8)
Okay... that's the first round of questions....and I'm not afraid to play with crossover points and such to tighten the sound even more....so thanks for your time.
Mike
0
Comments
1) That is an inconvenience, but that's what it is. The attenuator setting is the same however.
2) Can you daisy the amps together? You should be able to.
3) Set the sub Hi-pass (lo cut) to 40 - 45 hz BW18
4) You don't have enough delay to compensate for the separation you have.
5) Assuming that you are mixing stereo, you will have to set up your system as bi-amp with sub. Use the high and low as the main system and use the mid as a full range output. You will have to \"Y\" the outputs to the Mackie unless you can live with 1 side or the other for the DJ.
6) Go to the READ ME FIRST section above and read everything there (auto EQ included).
7) 24 6 54 12 1 1 34
DRA
1. Thanks
2. I'll check the AMP manuals, but these are entry level amps and I don't think the XLR connection has a pass through.
3. Thanks...I'll change that tonight.
4. Should I set the delay for maximum allowed to help as best as possible?
5. So Summing MID L & R with an XLR Y adapter to the Mackie...correct?
6. That's the same numbers my dog picked! Go figure.....THANKS! :P
Mike
4) My initial guess is yes. Just re-read your post. When you say 20 - 30 ft away, do you mean to the sides so the are all pretty close in line. The dimension that is important here is how much forward one speaker is to another. So you may be OK with only 10 ms (11 ft). Just step thru the settings and listen for the sweat spot where the low end gets tight.
5) Yes
DRA
I am putting your suggestions into play.
I'm still confused on the Para EQ and Limiter settings though.
I'll read any link or post that Gadget throws out there, but without the Professional or \"hand-on\" experience, some of this is still out in left field for me.
Currently:
Para EQ is off
Limiters are set for H and L at \"OVER EASY\" SETTING 4 and at -5db.
I don't know exactly where, or what, the last -5db setting enforces the Limiters. I think I am to understand that after the propper Gain Setup, I am asking the Limiter to \"Kick in\" at 5db below clipping point. Am I close? :?
I did find a delay point that sounded best...just trial and error on that setting.
Thanks again to all in the Fourm,
Mike
From the reccomended reading ... (remember speakers NOT connected)
A. Determine the clip point of all amps by setting the gain structure.
B. After turning down the amp and marking the point where the amp stops clipping, turn the amp up to where it clips again.
C. Press the \"Comp / Limiter\" button 2 times to get to the Limiter section.
D. There is a limiter for each x-over section that it set up. For example: 2-way (Hi and lo) has 2 limiters, 3-way (hi, mid, & lo) has 3 limiters. Select the section that needs to be limited (all need to be limited).
E. For the selected output, select Over Easy as on. This gives a softer, less noticeable limiting effect. Select setting 4 as a starting point.
F. Lower the threshold until the amp stops clipping. (Start with the threshhold all the way up)
G. Return the amp to the previously marked spot.
H. Repeat steps E - G for all output bands.
Note: It is highly recommended to re-check the DriveRacks output limiters if the X-over gains have been changed, or if any \"enhancements\" have beem made using GEQ, PEQ, or Sub-Synth afterwards
Note: The DRPA, unlike the 260, DOES NOT have a brick wall limiter. For example: With a clip point for the amp at +20db and a limiter threshold at +17db and the limiter, depending on the use and setting of the Over Easy, may successfully reduce an output at the limiter section of a +19db input. But, if the signal spikes to +24 db. The limiter may reduce the output by 2 or 3db, but it WILL let pass the remaining peak output, which is well into, and beyond, the clip point of the amp.
PEQ - Is a smooth way to enhance your sound. Much better than GEQ. Download the 260 driveware GUI and open the GEQ and move the faders and watch the result on the screen (very wavy). Then open a PEQ and see how much more control you have.
DRA
Okay, I think I've got a better handle on the Para EQ now. I've always used the Graphic EQ as a soft bell curve for any frequencies I was adjusting, but I will play with the Para EQ to roll off the highs and protect the Subs on the less than 40Hz range.
I'll walk through the Limiter setup when I get to the restaurant, and I understand to not pay much attention to where the settings land as long as I'm using the gain/clip points to set the threshold.
Thanks again Dra, I'm sure I have a long way to go on this journey, but really appreciate someone walking a part of the way with me.
Have a great weekend everyone! (I'll be babysitting my Dj's and playing some golf)
Mike
Yeh, there is no such thing as a \"soft bell\" with side by side faders on the GEQ. Just up down up down up down. You also have shelves avaiable if you need an \"x\" point and up boost or cut.
Good luck
DRA