speaker tuning help
brandoom989
Posts: 9
Hello all,
I am trying out the indoor speaker tuning method and just wanted to share my pics and see if you could maybe give me some pointers. The speaker is a Kustom KPC 15m driven by a peavey CS-800x. My PEQ settings seem extreme to me but the speaker sounds pretty good... anyways, here are my pics and any advice will be greatly appreciated.
I am trying out the indoor speaker tuning method and just wanted to share my pics and see if you could maybe give me some pointers. The speaker is a Kustom KPC 15m driven by a peavey CS-800x. My PEQ settings seem extreme to me but the speaker sounds pretty good... anyways, here are my pics and any advice will be greatly appreciated.
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edit: i also got rid of the 12db boost from 31-63 hz on the GEQ because i have the hpf @ 54hz. i also got red of the 12db boost @ 16khz.
Oh, and what precurve did you choose for the auto EQ pass...?
Gadget
You would be much better to place the measurement mic in the singers head/ear position and point it toward the monitor wedge where it belongs. That also requires a bit of incite. For an SM58, (cardioid mic) the correct position of the mic is \"erect\" with the monitor 90 degrees off axis, that means the monitor is at the base of the mic stand, and the cord of the mic is pointing at it.
For an SM58 beta...(hyper cardioid) the mic should be \"flaccid, (read parallel with the floor)and the monitor 45 degrees off axis. That means on a clock scale the audience being strait ahead, the monitor would be in the 1:30-2:00/10:00-10:30 position as any monitor should sit ..with the singer/performer in the middle of the sound field. Get it so it cuts through the mix.
Forget anything in the low frequencies.. those speakers CANNOT reproduce them... No wonder the Auto EQ BOOSTED them fully, they weren't there... Since you put the mic in the hot spot for the horn I bet the response flattens out and falls off farther from the horn, and where the
horn interacts with the 15 chaos can muddy the sound.
There is more to this than you can imagine...
\"The more you learn, the less you know...\"
Gadget :shock:
I just upgraded to powered mains and decided to switch my DRPA over to my monitors so i am going to run 2 monitor mixes into 4 of these cabs (2 cabs on each channel of my amp). So i set up a 2x6 full-range preset in case i wanted to add more monitors later. Kinda wish i could have more inputs so i could have more monitor mixes but this will work fine for now, i am eager to see how well the AFS will work for monitors.
The mic is way over to the side because this is a floor monitor and that is where the horn is. I guess i will try a few runs with the monitor on its end so the horn is above the 15 instead of off to the side...makes more sense now that i think about it.
I used the flat response curve and high precision to do my test.
Edit: Hey, you posted your own response faster than i responded to your first response :P.
I will try it out with the monitor on the floor and the mic pointing down at it and see what i get.
I am also going to make a preset in case i do have to use these for FOH, side fills, or aux speakers on stands.
Thanks for all the help and i apologize for not giving you more info to begin with.
DRA
I will run the same test when i get home today with the speaker up on its side like it would be on a pole for side fills or FOH and see if it changes my results much. Ill post you fellas some pics of that run, and also some pics of a run as a floor moitor with the mic where a preformers head would be.
Thanks for the help guys.
Brandon
\"if they are used as monitors then yo really need to use a different approach....The discussion that predicated the \"new indoor method\" was for FOH, NOT monitor world... One is farfield where the audience is farther away on average than ANYTHING the stage has to offer. The other has to punch out to the MIC position without overwhelming the FOH mix...The single most copied mistake is to allow too much low end in the monitors....the FOH at moderate levels cannot overcome the monitor mix...Lower the bass in the monitors to stop the FOH bleeding.\"
in your post...are you just dismissing this out of hand or what? This is EQ'ing in the nearfield and most of the reflected sound is far enough down to not cause much effec unless there is a heating duct right over the measurement mic. `
Ok I see you just posted a response.. and are trying both methods. I would tip the speaker as you did before though and get the mic so the focal point between the horn and woofer is about centered in the mic position. The rope was a good idea, I just used a wood block since mine are small and co-axial. Remember those speakers cannot reproduce much below 70 hz.. if that I know it says 45 hz but that is just not reality.. maybe +- 30 db... It's probably closer to 100 hz. the custom site was NO help whatsoever. Now mind you I'm NOT bashing what you have but these are inexpensive speakers that have a bad reputation in Pro P.A. circles.. here was one review of many :
\"I've run 300 watts through these, above the rated peak level, and it still isn't loud enough to be heard over a drummer. I panned back and forth between these and my JBL JRX125s, and when compared to something decent, these sound like 4 year olds beating on trashcans. Buy something, ANYTHING, that can handle higher wattages, and with better sensitivity.
The enclosures are garbage. I tried to pole mount these and the plastic mounts INSTANTLY cracked and split away from the wood, and I had to install fender washers all around them to insure it wouldn't just snap completely off. With the way the grill is mounted, without any support, with any pressure at all it will pop in, sometimes resting on the rim of the speaker. If this happens you have to take a screw driver in one of the holes and pry it out. The plastic corners have also all long since cracked.
Due to a very strange circumstance, I'm stuck with 4 of these series speakers, and I am extremely displeased with them. Please do not waste your money \"
You may have trouble getting these to sound really good, and I suspect radical EQ will be necessary to do so...
Gadget
Auto EQ after first run:
my PEQ corrections, man i need more filters! :roll:
Auto EQ run after my PEQ:
A few questions first, do you think i should leave the +12db boost on the lows even though my filter is set @ 45hz? (keep in mind this preset is for side fill monitors or FOH without subs in a pinch, not floor monitors.) And whats up with the weird 4kHz spike? I tried to kill it while still boosting my sibilance freqs, there is obviously no contour on these horns but I tried :P
Any suggestions? I am considering just leaving the dbx how it is and using a 31 band on each channel for whatever i need in a pinch at a show.
Listening to cd playback with these settings I added (on the parametric on the board) 6db boost @ 80hz (thats with the speaker still sitting on the floor, but not tilted
I truly appreciate your help guys, i will be posting my floor monitor run as soon as i finish it.
I hope your monday was better than mine,
Brandon
DRA
\"if they are used as monitors then yo really need to use a different approach....The discussion that predicated the \"new indoor method\" was for FOH, NOT monitor world... One is farfield where the audience is farther away on average than ANYTHING the stage has to offer. The other has to punch out to the MIC position without overwhelming the FOH mix...The single most copied mistake is to allow too much low end in the monitors....the FOH at moderate levels cannot overcome the monitor mix...Lower the bass in the monitors to stop the FOH bleeding.\"
in your post...are you just dismissing this out of hand or what? This is EQ'ing in the nearfield and most of the reflected sound is far enough down to not cause much effec unless there is a heating duct right over the measurement mic. `
Ok I see you just posted a response.. and are trying both methods. I would tip the speaker as you did before though and get the mic so the focal point between the horn and woofer is about centered in the mic position. The rope was a good idea, I just used a wood block since mine are small and co-axial. Remember those speakers cannot reproduce much below 70 hz.. if that I know it says 45 hz but that is just not reality.. maybe +- 30 db... It's probably closer to 100 hz. the custom site was NO help whatsoever. Now mind you I'm NOT bashing what you have but these are inexpensive speakers that have a bad reputation in Pro P.A. circles.. here was one review of many :
\"I've run 300 watts through these, above the rated peak level, and it still isn't loud enough to be heard over a drummer. I panned back and forth between these and my JBL JRX125s, and when compared to something decent, these sound like 4 year olds beating on trashcans. Buy something, ANYTHING, that can handle higher wattages, and with better sensitivity.
The enclosures are garbage. I tried to pole mount these and the plastic mounts INSTANTLY cracked and split away from the wood, and I had to install fender washers all around them to insure it wouldn't just snap completely off. With the way the grill is mounted, without any support, with any pressure at all it will pop in, sometimes resting on the rim of the speaker. If this happens you have to take a screw driver in one of the holes and pry it out. The plastic corners have also all long since cracked.
Due to a very strange circumstance, I'm stuck with 4 of these series speakers, and I am extremely displeased with them. Please do not waste your money \"
You may have trouble getting these to sound really good, and I suspect radical EQ will be necessary to do so...
Gadget
You asked:
\"A few questions first, do you think i should leave the +12db boost on the lows even though my filter is set @ 45hz? (keep in mind this preset is for side fill monitors or FOH without subs in a pinch, not floor monitors.)\"
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!
As I said above those speakers can't reproduce much below 60 hz it would seem.. I think the 63 hz band is not right, and is actually MUCH mopre like 31.5, 40, and 50 hz bands (boosted fully) I think the 80 hz band is probably about right.. but as I have posted, the cheap measurement mic's don't usually work that well in the low frequencies.
I'd say the 4k is a horn resonance.. but isn't the big cut ACTUALLY at 3.15K and a boost @ 4k? with the 3.15 K curt that drastically I would suspect a nasally/muddy sound as that is the (3K5) vocal clarity. frequency...
Try the monitor /nearfield setup and see what you get, but as I said before... and I am not trying to hack on your equipment, those speaker may require some radical EQ work to make them usable. Truth is, they probably used some really cheap components and an even cheaper crossover on them ...Sorry...
Gadget
brandon