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setting up compressor and limiter on 260 question

Jaymichael1Jaymichael1 Posts: 12
seasons greetings to everybody!
im a new user of the driverack 260, had a couple nights of use
and things worked very well. the fellow i usually work with who is more
familar with this unit cannot be with me tomorrow night for a dance that
i am doing the sound at.
i was hoping someone may be able to walk me through the set up
of setting my compressor and limiter on the 260.
i am using 4 rcf 4pro 8001 self powered subs and 2 rcf 4pro 4001 3 way
self powered tops. i have no problem setting up the wizard configuration
but as far as setting up the limiter and compressor i am not so comfortable. the venue is a fairly large room, biggest this rig has been
set up in so i know they will be getting pushed pretty hard so i hope
someone could help me get a better grasp at setting this up properly
so i protect my gear yet have the ability to run at high volume if needed.
here is the specs on the speakers.

http://www.rcfaudio.com/vediMacro.phtml ... roduct.htm

http://www.rcfaudio.com/vediMacro.phtml ... roduct.htm

ive been told to set cross overs as follows, tops 100, bottoms 45 and 100
does this sound suitable?

if someone could give me a step by step walk through of the rest
it would be greatly appreciated.

btw, its for live music earlier in the night and then dj's for the rest of
the night.

thank!

Comments

  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Assuming you have done a gain structure, you know the point that the system starts to clip, forget the compressor, set the limiter to \"peak stop\", the auto to off, the over easy to 7 for starters, and set the threshold 6-10 db below the clip point. If you cannot get loud enough try raising the threshold a bit, but you better have 3db or more of headroom, or risk speaker damage...
    Gadget
  • DraDra Posts: 3,777
    100hz is fine. I'd set your subs filter to 120hz though and use the 260's LR24 filter at 100hz (45 - 50hz BW18 on the low cut-off). Then 100hz LR24 for the tops.
    You do not want to use the compressor. Limiter setting is going to be difficult to set up because you have limiting built in all your cabs. You could set yours to brickwall 2-3 db above where the cabs go into steady limiting. But, that is difficult to judge.
    You didn't mention the Auto-EQ. I hope that means that you haven't used it (good). Untill you have read the entire READ ME 1st SECTION, do not attempt it (sucky sound. Are you using a laptop for set-up and control? If not, consider it.

    Good luck.

    DRA
  • thanks for the responses guys, many thanks. i havent got my laptop
    to work yet, tried one model of adapter and it didnt work. working
    on sourcing another one. im in canada having trouble finding one.
    im not using auto eq as i havent had much time to play with it. ill
    have the system set up for 5 days over new years weekend, will
    have lots of time to play with it then. so no compressor huh? forgive
    my lack of knowedge but i was under the impression that a compressor
    would allow the system to go louder than normal by reducing
    the level of peak audio signals but not affecting quiter ones, thus allowing
    the over all volume to be increased safely... to a point. thoughts?
  • seperate question... lets say i had my system set up as normal but
    wanted to run 2 more speakers in the back corners of the room for fills.
    how would i modify my wizard set up so i could send a full range signal
    to the back speakers?
  • DraDra Posts: 3,777
    Gadget slipped by again. HA

    The compressor will allow you to go all loud all the time, but you sacrifice musicality (dynamics). This is not good for speakers or amps (Do I smell smoke?) either.

    Setting up speakers in the rear firing in is not a problem, but is not natual sound if the band is coming at you from the other direction. The much better solution is to set speakers 1/2 way back firing in the same direction as the mains stacks. Just set the delay for them. It is easy to do.

    Assuming that you are running 2 x 4, then just use the other 2 available outputs to mimic the set-up of the tops (except use a filter instead of a full x-over and set the delay). PS - the wixard has nothing to do with it.
    You can try to run the filter down a bit (closer to full range) but you may have some phasing problems. But give it a try if you wish. (Gadget??)

    DRA
  • i wouldnt run the rears for live music, only in a dj type situation.
    so to be clear, i would run xlrs from the open 2 channels and not use a
    cross over on them? so in the set up i would have to select 4 main channels
    and 2 sub channels, then when setting up the cross over i would adjust so
    the rears get a full range signal? you mentioned a filter... sorry not following,
    can you explain. thanks

    so when would you use a compressor? hypothetically, if i were in a position where i was willing to sacrifice some sound dynamics for volume. how would i set the 260 up to do this. occasionally
    my system gets rented out for techno shows and sometimes a little
    extra volume would be preferable vs overall quality of sound.
    thanks
  • kpippenkpippen Posts: 551
    so when would you use a compressor? hypothetically, if i were in a position where i was willing to sacrifice some sound dynamics for volume. how would i set the 260 up to do this. occasionallymy system gets rented out for techno shows and sometimes a littleextra volume would be preferable vs overall quality of sound.
    thanks
    Hi Jay,

    The guys here don't recommend using the compressor because it's an overall system compressor... You can read my spiel about it in this thread...

    Kev
  • thanks for the reply kevin, your talking about feedback being created
    from a mic on stage? my situation would not be for live music, pre-recorded only, still a bad idea?
  • DraDra Posts: 3,777
    I'm at a bit of a loss as I've never set up a filter (single band of a x-over) from the front panel. I've only used the Driveware GUI. In a nut shell, a filter just allows you to not have a dead band of a x-over that you have to navigate around.
    A compressor will allow much higher average volume, but as Gadget says...most modern (Techno) is already highly compressed. Compression as you wish to use it will shorten the life of your gear, but if you feel a need and your customer requests it, go for it.
    Since you rent your system for Techno shows, you should set the Peak Stop \"brickwall\" at you absolute max volume and set up your password protection. That way if a DJ pushes everything to the max and then pushes all the EQ's to max the 260 won't let it pass, no matter what. Unless of coarse they figure out that the cabinet gains are not maxed out and turn them up. OOPS! The idiots got throught the proof.

    DRA
  • kpippenkpippen Posts: 551
    thanks for the reply kevin, your talking about feedback being created from a mic on stage? my situation would not be for live music, pre-recorded only, still a bad idea?
    Hi Jay,

    As Dra pointed out...compression allows for increased energy to your amps and drivers... This increased energy could potentially create failure (usually in underpowered systems) with loudspeakers (burn a voice coil),...or it could trigger the thermal protection of an exhausted amplifier from a higher duty cycle (especially if driving a low impedance load),...which could shut it down... Also,...over-compression can cause a pumping or breathing sound that can be very annoying... Personally,...I don't see the benefits outweighing the risk...2cents.gif

    Regardless,...I would most certainly set-up the limiters as Dra suggested...especially if your going to rent your equipment out...

    Kev
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    If you use a 2 X 6 setup you could set the Hi outs to cover the main tops, and the lo outs to cover the subs. Now we know from Kevin and Dra that compressing and already heavily compressed media is NOT a good idea. The reason that most modern producers get coerced into this is to allow for maximum impact in a broadcast situation.. I.E. FM radio broadcast, where the loudest average spl creates the most interest/listeners/revenue.. you get the idea right...So were not giving in to the gods of over compression, and thats good since the DRPA (for those of you that have the DRPA tyhat is.. the 260 has no limitation here) cannot separate compression in a given channel, or set of channels...all or nothing. Limiting however, offers some benefits compression does not. What we are looking for here is a safety mechanism that will allow us to protect our equipment and still have freedom to get the most out of our systems. The limiter can do that, the compressor cannot. If you set the gain structure properly you know where the system clips, and by setting the \"peak stop\" to \"brick wall\" and 3-12 db of headroom using the \"threshold\" control(turn off the \"auto\" as it produces artifacts)the system can t a certain extent monitor itself.

    We still have the Mid outs and those could be used to drive your rear channels. The process of setting up a band pass filter is quite simple. I cannot give you a button by button description, but by pressing the Xover button and toggling through the menu till you find the lopass and hipass points and setting them where the speaker abilities lie you can achieve your goal. I would set the hipass somewhat high however, in the 120 and up area, NOT below the tops crossover point, as this can elicit comb filtering.

    Does that answer your question?
    Gadget
  • thanks very much to all of you for the help! got more knowedge to work with, will let you know how it works out.
    peace
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