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Speaker choice for foldback

Fanman20Fanman20 Posts: 223
edited January 2008 in dbx Archive General Discussion
Greatings again

I am mixing a small band in a church and want to keep the \"volume\" on stage down.
The closer I move the foldback wedges to the singers and muso's the more I can turn down the wedges, therefore the less \"volume\" on stage.

My question is has any body seen or used small speakers on mic stands?

(This will get speakers a lot closer, and less \"volume\" will be needed)
(May not look good but better quality sound out front is my primary aim)

What brand's work well?
What are the pluses and minuses for this setup ?
Bass response is not that important but vocals responce is.

Love to hear your thoughts

Mark

Comments

  • kpippenkpippen Posts: 551
    Hi Mark,

    I suppose IEM's are out of the question?...

    http://www.westone.com/content/8.html

    Kev
  • Fanman20Fanman20 Posts: 223
    unfortunately too expensive
  • kpippenkpippen Posts: 551
    Mark,

    Maybe something like this will work with some good earphones...

    http://www.rolls.com/products/pm50.php

    http://www.rolls.com/products/pm50sob.php

    Cheers!

    Kev
  • Fanman20Fanman20 Posts: 223
    I have used “wired in ear�

    Behringer headphone amp AMP800

    http://messe.harmony-central.com/Musikm ... MP800.html

    Hard wired into a belt pack, then into an “in ear� monitors

    Worked well, but would like to use speakers
  • Fanman20Fanman20 Posts: 223
    You are too quick for me. :lol:
    Your suggestion is similar to the Behringer headphone amp AMP800

    I does work well untill the muso's need to move around. does tie them down.

    Don't work well for the lead singer
  • kpippenkpippen Posts: 551
    edited December 2007
    Mark,

    Do a google search for key phrase: Bose Jewel Cube

    Also search your local Aussie eBay... These could be mounted right on your mic stands using the bose UB-20 wall brackets... Bose also offers UFS-20 floor stands for these...

    http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_STATIC_PAGE_EVENT&url=/home_entertainment/theater/systems/premium_dvd/ls38/accessories.jsp#tabs

    You would need to get cables for them because they have a special 2-pin connector... You would need to watch your impedance... You have a Bose outlet store close by?...

    Kevin
  • Fanman20Fanman20 Posts: 223
    Bose in Aust are very expensive compaired to the USA (I do own a pair of 802's and 502 subs)

    Heres a thought

    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct03/i ... itor.l.jpg
  • kpippenkpippen Posts: 551
    Here's five for $79.00USD...:lol:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... =WDVW&rd=1

    Kev
  • kpippenkpippen Posts: 551
    Fanman20 wrote:
    Heres a thought

    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct03/i ... itor.l.jpg

    I have seen something very similar!... The drumer in one of our praise teams used it... I think it was called "hot box" or something like that... I'll try a search...

    Kev
  • Fanman20Fanman20 Posts: 223
    1 for $79
    PLEASE NOTE THERE ARE 5 SPEAKERS IN THE PICTURE AVAILABLE FOR SALE INDIVIDUALLY BUT YOU WILL ONLY BE GETTING ONE (1) SPEAKER FOR THE BUY IT NOW PRICE OF $79.99 NOT ALL 5 OF THEM ALTHOUGH

    ebay gets me every time
  • kpippenkpippen Posts: 551
    Sorry,...my bad!...:lol:

    Now if you could only buy the sattelites:

    http://www.yamaha.com/drums/drumproductdetail.html?CNTID=544652&CNTYP=PRODUCT

    Kev
  • kpippenkpippen Posts: 551
    GOT IT!!!!

    http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--GXYMSVC

    http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--GXYMICROSPOTPW

    http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--GXYHOTSPOTVC

    Kev
  • Fanman20Fanman20 Posts: 223
    edited December 2007
    Well done
    That's what I thinking will work.

    I will do a little more research on http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--GXYHOTSPOTVC
    Tomorrow
    (Next year)
  • kpippenkpippen Posts: 551
    I guess the key words would be \"personal monitor\"...

    Have a great day!

    Kev
  • DraDra Posts: 3,777
    Peavey also makes an Impulse 4.5\"(x2) + Tweet with level control, but not on the front.
    Others make them as well, stay away from horns if you can (feedback).

    DRA
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Ish.. they all suck in my opinion unless you are at a seriously low volume over all, and with a loud FOH.. LESS than useless...Never met a guitar player that could operate at a low volume, and I, as a guitar player, understand that with an amp the tone is hard to get at a low volume. Last night I had a bass player that was KILLING me out front, A lady came to complain and I went up and told the player that even with the channel OFF, and muted the bass level changed very little(I demonstrated this to the lady) He looked at me like I was crazy...Later he came to me somewhat sheepishly and said I found out what the problem was... The EQ AND volume control were ALL THE WAY UP.. and the speaker was now destined for the scrap heap...He said
    \"I don't understand... the speaker is rated at 300 watts and the amp only has 180 watts?\" Note...you can blow up a 400 watt speaker with a 20 watt amp far easier than you could with a 2000 watt amp.. it's all in how an amp clips, and produces deadly DC current that fries speakers. The amp was on the floor, a 10 \" Behringer \"combo amp\" with a 300 watt Eminence speaker. firing at his ankles.

    This goes to show that you need to get your players to get their amps in a position that they can hear them at a lower volume.
    Gadget
  • Fanman20Fanman20 Posts: 223
    unless you are at a seriously low volume over all

    It is in a church and the volume is low. That’s why I would like to find a solution to the large volume of sound coming off stage, without using IEM.

    At times there is no FOH sound detectable; it is all \"Foldback muffled noise.\"
    I may as well not be mixing FOH.

    Getting the foldback speakers closer to muso's and turning down there amp sounds like a smart idea.
    Does any one have similar problems??

    I would like to find a solution.

    Mark
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Personally I think the \"all direct input/no amps on stage would be the only way to go in church. I had band with ALL Line 6 gear, guitar and bass rigs and the drummer played Roland \"V\" drums and everything went through the monitors and it was so quite it was beautiful.. except in a live full out band setting I HATED the Line 6 sound, but for church...

    Gadget
  • DraDra Posts: 3,777
    2 hotspots and a roll of duct tape. (mega-earphones) :D

    Seriously, I've seen guitar players place their amps in front of them and angle like a monitor. That helps.

    Also seen them bring in 2 full \"M\" stacks in a 30 x 20 room and complain that they can't here the vocal in the monitors. wah?

    DRA
  • kpippenkpippen Posts: 551
    At our church we run everything through active DI boxes (one Tech21 Sans Amp, one Countryman DI, one L.R. Baggs Para Acoustic, two Radial J48s and POD XTs),...absolutely no amps on stage... We do have acoustic drums but with a drum shield and we have six monitors on stage... As for the foldback mix if I'm running sound I insist that the wedges are only as loud as they absolutely have to be... We always practice about 1-hour before the service and get the mix right... Right when the service starts I turn each monitor mix down by 3dB... The musicians never know the difference and the FOH is always on top...:lol:

    Kev
  • Fanman20Fanman20 Posts: 223
    Check out this thought

    Speaker on a mic stand!! :roll:
    http://www.electrovoice.com/products/136.html

    75 watts rms

    anyone seen / used these speakers??

    Mark
  • kpippenkpippen Posts: 551
    Fanman20 wrote:
    Check out this thought

    Speaker on a mic stand!! :roll:
    http://www.electrovoice.com/products/136.html

    75 watts rms

    anyone seen / used these speakers??

    Mark
    Mark,...It appears that it's rated for 150 watts music program and 300 watts peak... Looks pretty good to me... You may want to search the PSW forums to see if anyone there has comments... Here's some more info that I found:

    http://192.112.63.14/Electrovoice3/files.nsf/Pages/EVID32-eds/$file/38109981.pdf

    http://192.112.63.14/Electrovoice3/files.nsf/Pages/SOS32INSTr/$file/EV_EVID_SOS_3.2_%26_MA-3_Series_Assembly_Instructions.pdf

    I noticed they cost anywhere from $119.00 to $150.00USD on the web,...but this one just sold on eBay for $55.00...:shock:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/EVID-SOS-3-2-MONITOR-SPEAKER_W0QQitemZ260197870133QQihZ016QQcategoryZ47093QQcmdZViewItem

    If you decide to get one please post back and let me know what you think about it...:P

    Kev
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    I don't know about YOU guys, but I go to GREAT lengths to keep vibrations and stage sounds from the monitors away from the mic stands... Now were hanging the boom arm and mic off a SPEAKER? sounds like a recipe for muddy vocals and or vibration induced wow and flutter in the low end...

    I wonder why in this world of innovation and application dependent mania that NO other speaker manufacturer any where else in the world has come out with something similar... Drink holders...yes, built in music stand.. yes, built in headphone holder.. yes, guitar pick minders..yes..speakers that vibrate like crazy? I don't think so...

    Geez :roll: I'm such wet blanket...

    Gadget
  • Fanman20Fanman20 Posts: 223
    Thanks for the links Kev

    Now Gadget, It appears that you are not living up yo your name, \"Gadget\".
    Kev has found a great \"Gadget\".

    Would it make you feel better it I said that I was only intending using a mic stand and speaker, and not a boom arm on top.!

    “Geez I'm such wet blanket...�

    But your thoughts are welcome.

    Mark
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    I keep up with the technology pretty well, that doesn't mean that everything that comes down the pike is a good idea that will prove out to be unique, and useful. Yes speakers on a stand will work, I just don't like them I guess.
    Gadget
  • kpippenkpippen Posts: 551
    Mark,

    Found this review: http://www.zzounds.com/productreview--ELVSOS32

    Kev
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    :shock: Imagine that... :lol: I won't say \"I told you so\" :roll: Looks like another NOT SO great idea :idea:
    Gadget
  • Fanman20Fanman20 Posts: 223
    Steady on Gadget

    Overall concept
    Reduce sound coming off stage though foldback speakers, therefore able to turn up FOH mix. Better mix for congregation / audience. Better speech intelligibility.


    Method
    Move foldback speakers closer to ears so less level required out of foldback speakers (taken to the extreme = IEM)

    Overall concept and method is not flawed.


    Only the execution that needs exploring / refining and tuning
    The review was only one person’s opinion that may not have been executed well or used in the wrong situation.

    Perhaps the speakers are too small, slightly bigger might be better.

    I will experiment with some JBL control 28's out of my garage sound system. http://www.jblpro.com/pub/install/contr ... Ctrl28.pdf

    I will put them on a 3 foot high stand near the keyboard player and see how they go.

    I might put my DRPA across them \"Pink them\" and transfer the results to 1/3 octave graphic

    Still working on the execution of the concept
    Thoughts working towards a good result are still appreciated
    Mark
  • kpippenkpippen Posts: 551
    Mark,

    TOA is usually pretty good stuff...

    http://www.shenzhen.cc/toa/ps-speakers/sm-68.htm

    http://www.toaelectronics.com/disc/spec_sheets/sm-68.pdf

    http://www.toaelectronics.com/disc/manuals/SM-68.pdf

    Kev
  • Fanman20Fanman20 Posts: 223
    Thanks Kev

    Looks as if might do the job
    Like the idea that it is flat
    It would sit just above a keyboard well

    Mark
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