Gee.. another gain structure question..

underwood7582

Ok, before you get mad and say\" GO READ THE OTHER POST\". lol
I have read until my eyes are crossed. Almost every post I read says that they dont have the volume .My problem. Way to much.. I set the gain structure by the walkthrough you guys have posted. Everything looked great with Unity at the mixer and the DRPA. Amps were set according also. Well when I put in a CD and cranked it up.. Whhhhhoooaaaa. I couldnt even get close to unity. I tried to redo it and same thing. Again... same thing. The only thing I can come up with is that my amps are too strong for my speakers. But i dont see how... The amps are 660 W/per channel. And Ive got them daisy chained. So there is approx. What.. 330 going to each speaker with the speaker specs at 250 W-Program and 125W- Continuous. Is this correct??
Maybe I misread something but after 3 times and still same thing. I KNOW its on my end but a I am confused on how to fix it.

underwood7582

Forgive me of my stupidness. I said I read and read until my eyes crossed.lol. Sooooo I started reading some more. Apparently Im a moron who cant read the last line in the manual that clearly states..\"IF THIS SETTING IS TOO LOUD WHEN YOUR SPEAKERS ARE RECONNECTED YOU CAN TURN DOWN THE AMPLIFIER INPUT ATTENUATORS EVEN MORE.
Nice Chris.. real nice.. Sorry for making you read this guys..

Gadget

First off...what system...what speakers... we know what amps...but still...

After you finish the gain structure...TURN THE MIXER MASTER GAINS DOWN>>>> now... play a CD you know well that is good and full range...have the mixer input channel @ the design center with the gain NOT clipping...slide the master faders up till it sounds good... (how can this be blasting your ears out?) IF you have a sub, or are Bi-amping or bi-amping with a sub... balance the different elements(speakers) by turning the LOUDEST one down (usually the horn) or in a tops with subs... the tops, since the subs take MORE POWER... \"Thanks Tim\" (see why I needed to know what the system consisted of?) well? I think you may have read ... but not comprehended perhaps?

Gadget

underwood7582

My sytem is listed in my other post.
But I will list it again
Mackie SR32-4 -VLZ- Mixer
DRPA
2x CE 2000 amp.
2x Crate PS-1510H (no specs other than what I posted earlier)
2x TOA Monitors

I set my channel fader at unity and when I tried to raise my masters, I couldnt get close to unity on it. I didnt move it but about 1/2 inch from the bottom. I figured out all I had to do was lower the amp attenuators drastically and it was fine. At least I know my amp will never clip..

Gadget

ya but then the system isn't all talking the same language....It doesn't matter if the masters are low if it sounds good...You could also lower the xover points/bandpass filters gains as well...

gadget

Fanman20

Hi guys

As I see underwood7582 problem:-

unity set though out gear
when CD played it is all too loud
Does this mean that the system is too big for the room???


Stick a 1,000w system is a closet and it will be too loud!!


So how do you make it quieter????
What do you turn down

underwood7582 wrote

My problem. Way to much..

Whhhhhoooaaaa. I couldnt even get close to unity

Read this post I asked similar question

http://www.dbxpro.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=1007&highlight=

Is this what you are asking underwood7582???

Mark

Dra

Remember \"Unity\" essentially mean that the system is at full volume for the system ( \"X\" amps into \"X\" speakers yielding 110 db, for example). If you need to attenuate a source (cd, vocal, piano, whatever) because it is burying everything else, do that.

DRA

Fanman20

Evening

I am understanding the the whole system is too loud.

If he put in smaller amps / speakers the he could achieve unit over the whole system.
Just because it is the right SPL for the room and for what he wants the system to achieve.

Example
If he wanted to play hyms though a 4 way system with 4,000 watt amps to old people in the congregation than he would need to turn somthing down , amps master faders or somthing.

What should he turn down????

the last line in the manual that clearly states..\"IF THIS SETTING IS TOO LOUD WHEN YOUR SPEAKERS ARE RECONNECTED YOU CAN TURN DOWN THE AMPLIFIER INPUT ATTENUATORS EVEN MORE.

I think that is the question.

Dra

Personally, I'd reduce the channel fader. I've read that some like to set all faders at unity and them \"mix\" with the input gains. The problem I have with that is if you are using aux, fx, monitor, etc... you could be in a world of hurt and loose control of the whole system.
My 2 cents.

DRA

underwood7582

Ill get it right .. Ill do some more testing and yes Fanman.that is similiar to my situation. Thanks guys.

Fanman20

I was thinking in bed last night, if I had a sound system that was too loud for what I needed than what I would \"turned down\" would be determined by the set up, venue and the regulatory of the gig.

If it was a “one off gig� outdoors than I would turn down the master fader and leave the amps on \"unity\" / clip..

Reason
It would be too hard to get up the front and turn the amps up if I ran out of level. Easies to push up the master fader, more control of the gig, head room etc.

If it was in a Church situation I would probably turn down the amps and run faders on \"Odb\"

Reason
It is more controlled situation, you know what your levels are and run the desk, DRPA amps at \"unity\" . The amps are not driven hard and they will last longer.

Just a thought

Mark

Dra

One caviot to Fanmans ideas for a church set-up. Imagine the benediction is by someone's granny and she is a whisperer. Oops, no more gain available. Granted feedback may be the limiter here, but you get the point. I think what we can agree on is that it all depends, right.

DRA

Gadget

Now if you think about this for a minute you'll see that there is only one real choice here...The less expensive analog consoles have a tendency to get noisier the higher the master faders are up... therefore I stand by my recommendation that you turn the MASTER faders down if the system is too loud... that way you can maintain good signal to noise on the channel strips where the majority of the signal to noise issues exist (think in terms of one master fader and how many channel faders?... well LOTS by comparison right?). Also if you SHOULD need more gain you don't have to run up to the amp rack to get it
Gadget