Another DRPA or add a 260 or do nothing?

Katie

Hello:
I am a new DRPA user and forum member. I respect advice given by experienced folks, and that is why I am here.

Current Setup:
Room: Theater see photo - it is fairly *live* due to the hard walls and floor area in front of the stage.

Music:
Oldies, Country, R&B, Motown, a mix of American music.

Performers:
6 singers with wireless Beta58s

Band:
Drums, sax, flute, electric guitar, steel guitar, acoustic guitar, drums, Yamaha S90 keyboard, Bass. All instruments (except flute and sax which are mic'ed) are direc boxed but all have on-stage amps for their own monitoring purposes.

Equipment:
Mains:
Four Yamaha BR15s. These are setup on the stage, 2 stacked per side just in front of the blue curtain as shown in the photo.
Monitors:
Two Yamaha BR12Ms on the lip of the stage for singers, Three Yamaha BR12Ms across the middle stage for the band.
Amps:
Crown 402 for the Mains (L&R), Crown 202 for the Monitors (one channel to front /singer monitors, one channel to the band monitors).
Mixer:
Peavey 24FX 24-Channel Mixer
Rack:
DRPA for the mains, Dbx 2 channel EQ for the Monitors.

Operation: I mix the mains as anyone would. I have a separate send on each channel for each of the monitor channels so I can give the singers or the band the mix of vocal or instrument they need.

Ok, that hopefully gives you an idea of my setup - I felt it best to give you a clear picture of my situation so you can better answer my questions.

Using the the Wizard (it had my amp and speakers as selections) have set the DRPA to a 2X and, using the DBX RTA mic, performed an Auto EQ with (and I use this term loosely) *some* success. I realize my success is dependent on experience with the DRPA, but I am not there yet. The DRPA is full of nice features that I am just learning to appreciate. I am quite the novice with the DRPA - a rack of legacy boxes is something I am familiar with but I am more than willing to learn.

Question 1:
I would like to get a better sound out of the monitors. I was thinking about getting another DRPA just for the monitors and doing a separate AutoEQ on the Front and Rear. Is this a good idea? Is it possible? (Based on my reading of the FAQs and the white papers it is not -but I could be missing something). Should I just leave the Dbx 2 channel EQ in line and leave things alone?

Question 2:
If I were to purchase another Drive Rack, should I get the 260? (I would then run the monitors through the DRPA). Would I really realize any difference from the DRPA to the 260 considering my 2X setup?

Question 3:
Regardless of the DriveRack (DRPA or 260) for the mains, would I realize any difference by getting a separate sub-woofer (say an 18\" self powered) or should I just tweak the DriveRack to the BR15s a bit more?

Question 4:
Regardless of the DriveRack, what is the best way to Auto EQ my speakers for this room?

One last request (note...not a question ). If you have ANY tips for setting up the DRPA (FB, Compression, etc) for my configuration, please send them my way.

I know this is a bit of a long post and I appreciate both your expertise and time.

Thank you,
Katie

Dra

Welcome. Well structured post. I will give you a few thoughts, then tell you to go to the READ ME FIRST section and read every post there. Great info and will answer most of you questions.

In the mean time... DO NOT USE COMPRESSION. Limiter set-up is described in RMF section with the Gain structure set-up guide.
Auto-EQ is dangerous and should not be tried until you read the assignment (you'll see why).
I use a 260 on FOH and a DRPA on my only monitor mix. The 260 is far superior to the DRPA. I recommend (especially if you plan to use the GUI). If I were in your shoes, this is what I think I would do (assuming I understand that you have 2 monitor mixes - 1 for vocalists, 1 for band). 260 for FOH.
DRPA on vocal mix.
DBX EQ on band monitors.

Download the 260 Driveware and play with it. You'll see what I mean.

Trying to use the DRPA to control 2 separate outputs (mixes) is problematic at best for an experienced user. I do not recommend.

As far as adding a sub.... it will help in several ways. 1 - frees up power for your top cabs. 2 - Cleans up your mix.
1 sub will not be enough if you mix loudly and the bottom end is heavy. But you may be OK with one, if it is the right sub.

Read up and post back.

DRA

Dra

With a 90 x 40 horn and theatre seating I think I would lay the cabs on ther side and with both horns in the middle. Gadget? :?:
As I see your cab's, I'll assume that you don't get crazy loud, so 1 sub should be fine (assuming at least 800w would be best). If are willing to spend $1000 or so then I hear great things about the Yorkville LS800P.

Too, 260's can be gotten for under $700. Most sellers want $800 or more.

DRA

Fanman20

Greetings Katie

Fantastic post, you have set the bench mark for the rest to follow.

Question 1
If you have the money, get the 260 and put I on FOH as Dra suggests
or
if money is tight, temporally put DRPA on foldback line and auto EQ it, then transfer to GEQ results to the \"Dbx 2 channel EQ\". Then put the DRPA back on FOH.

Question 2

If I were to purchase another Drive Rack, should I get the 260?

Yes, far better bit of gear. I have always regretted buying my PA wish I had a 260.

Question 3
A Sub or 2 will help. I noticed you coverage is 180 degrees, how does it sound in the corners of the room??

Question 4
There is plenty of thoughts posted. The read me section as Dra suggests is great. Come back with you questions

Just a few thoughts
Mark


Amps
http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/xls.htm
450w Stereo, 4 ohms (per ch.)

Speakers
http://www.yamahamusic.com.au/products/ ... oud/br.asp
400w each 8 ohm
No horn spread pattern given

Dra
Coverage is 180 by say 50. I would leave them upright, maybe one on top of the other (depending in stability, and this will save stage space) spun about 45 degrees to each other to cover the room.

Dra

Fan, Probably right about the cab orientaion... assuming that there is not a rear balcony that is not shown. Should have looked at the picture a little closer. If I had I would have seen the walls. (ha)

DRA

Fanman20

I wish all posts could have a picture.

As a

\"Picture says a thousand words\"

Mark

Dra

Nice seats. Nice stage. Nice Ceiling. Nice floor. Butt-ugly block walls? I guess they ran out of money.

DRA

Fanman20

Nice to have a Lady on board too (Katie)

We don't have enough Lady sound engineers!

Katie

Thank you all for your kind responses.

Prior to posting I read a bit, but I will continue reading as suggested. Thanks for the re-direct.

I'm checking out the 260 driveware (loaded on my pc) and reading much much much.

BTW, I did not run the compression on DRPA - I never compress the final. I only compress similar sonic spaces/power to their own single compressor(all vocals, all horns, all guitars, etc.) - but sometimes a sonic needs its own compressor (sax or upright bass).

Regarding the dispersion pattern of the speakers, they are 90° H x 40° V. This is why I stacked them (vertical orientation) for this room. The way they are stacked is that the bottom set is angled so the dispersion pattern converge just at the front row, front seat. The top set is rotated out so the pattern overlaps the bottom set a bit but covers the far left and right of the house.

When I set them up I pinked the room and did a walk-about with a db meter. Then I radioed to my tech to twist a speaker or two to even out the sound. It is not perfect, but I get a good fan-wash of sound in the room. Personally, I would like to fly some cones (and some lighting too) but this is a unique gig and it is not allowed. BTW, the walls are large blocks of marble that cause lots of first and second order reflections. This is why I wanted to fly the cones and put the primary sound in their faces to help negate the reflections. Some tweaking of the Lexicon helped remove the 1st order a bit with a quick plate/delay to cancel the first reflection, but it is not perfect and the 2nd reflection, although weaker, is still a bit of an annoyance. This place eats 600-900 and I swear it makes its own 6000-7000 :? Listening to an un EQ'ed and Lex'ed sweep tone is interesting. I'm not trying to dead the room because it has a natural reverb that is actually nice (and is anticipated/expected when you sit in the room) - its just not even across the spectrum. Which, is why I wanted to get the DPRA to EQ my speakers for this room.

Oh yeah...again....thank you for your replies.



Later,
Katie

Gadget

Mornin Katie...

I see my \"posse\" is gushing with advice...it's not often we get a lady round these parts. I might suggest that if you haven't already, try rotating the top speaker so that the horns are together so that the area where the horns coverage patterns overlap they couple instead of interact where cancellations and modes can develop. Have you fried flattening the speakers response as in the \"new indoor method\" http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=953
This will help your speakers produce all frequencies with equal energy. This is particularly useful in live rooms. Also when stored as a flat preset in the DRPA you can use it tho see what the room is doing to the sound by comparing multiple takes with the flattened plot. If you do the math you can then start to see what reflective surfaces are causing problems at that particular location.

Remember also that every room has the point of no return where the more sound you pour in the less quality you will get out. There is no solution for this problem other than to turn down.

As the guys said, the 260 is a HUGE step up!

Gadget