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Driverack PX Setup - EV Speakers

OklaPonyOklaPony Posts: 48
edited October 2008 in Configuration Wizard
Greetings,

While working on a setup for a client today I discovered that their top boxes, EVSXA250, aren't in the DRPX's native library. I'm not terribly familiar with these EV's so I picked a box that I hoped would be fairly close, the Mackie SRM350. Now that I'm back in front of a computer I realize that I probably chose poorly, lol. Anyway, as I went through the RTA process, the PX would never get past the \"Right-Left Balancing\". It would just advise me of the incomplete status of the setup, instruct me with amp level settings and start the process over. After 3 times I decided it wasn't going to get any better and forced it to move on. I set the \"D\" curve, ran the noise, and it eventually completed the EQ and FB processes but ended up sounding rather tinny. Maybe the room is really that bad? So, does anyone have suggested settings for this EV box?

Awesome forum here... thanks for any light you can shed on this!

Setup
Stereo
2 - Mackie SWA1501 subs (stereo for now)
2 - EV SXA250
1 - DRPX

Comments

  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Ok, lets clear something up right now...Powered speakers do need tunings. The only thing you get is a bandpass filter that allows a certain amount of the spectrum through. In the case of those EV's, With very limited power and a frequency response that falls off like a rock below 100 hz (10 db down @ 55 hz...I'd suggest 120 hz as the crossover between the subs and the tops. split the xover a few hz.

    So,
    hipass BW 18 @ 30 hz,
    lopass @ LR 24 111.7 hz
    thats the subs
    Hipass @ 118hz LR 24
    lopass.. you don't have one so it's said to be
    >out

    Unless you want to EQ each side separately select stereo, or linked stereo.

    Mic position is CRITICAL when Auto EQing... the WORST place in the world is between the two stacks, with multiple arrival times and reflections you have set yourself up for a really crappy sounding system, placing the mic on a mic stand only exacerbates the problem with further reflections and multiple arrivals. Have you read the \"read me first before posting\" section? We deal with many aspects of tuning systems and the Auto EQ process.

    Try setting the mic up nearfield with one side only running. Mic on a stand( this is nearfield measurement and the mic stand position will have minimal effect on the process) about 5 feet from the EV's pointed between the woofer and horn... are these things stacked on top of the subs?

    Why would you use the \"D\" curve? I recommend flat or \"C\" but flat will be the truest , and then taylor the sound to your liking after that.

    Try that and see what happens
    Gadget
  • OklaPonyOklaPony Posts: 48
    Gadget wrote:
    Ok, lets clear something up right now...Powered speakers do need tunings. The only thing you get is a bandpass filter that allows a certain amount of the spectrum through. In the case of those EV's, With very limited power and a frequency response that falls off like a rock below 100 hz (10 db down @ 55 hz...I'd suggest 120 hz as the crossover between the subs and the tops. split the xover a few hz.
    Powered speakers do need tunings or do NOT need tunings? I guess I'm not sure what you're clearing up here. Typo?
    Gadget wrote:
    So,
    hipass BW 18 @ 30 hz,
    lopass @ LR 24 111.7 hz
    thats the subs
    Hipass @ 118hz LR 24
    lopass.. you don't have one so it's said to be
    >out

    Unless you want to EQ each side separately select stereo, or linked stereo.

    Mic position is CRITICAL when Auto EQing... the WORST place in the world is between the two stacks, with multiple arrival times and reflections you have set yourself up for a really crappy sounding system, placing the mic on a mic stand only exacerbates the problem with further reflections and multiple arrivals. Have you read the "read me first before posting" section? We deal with many aspects of tuning systems and the Auto EQ process.
    I've read some but not all. If you don't use a mic stand then on what do set the RTA mic? My previous setup with the DRPX was with EON15G2's (1 pr. on stands, in stereo) following the DBX book. It worked perfectly so I was basically following a similar path. I've also done some work with DRPA however not terribly extensive.
    Gadget wrote:
    Try setting the mic up nearfield with one side only running. Mic on a stand( this is nearfield measurement and the mic stand position will have minimal effect on the process) about 5 feet from the EV's pointed between the woofer and horn... are these things stacked on top of the subs?
    EV's are on extension poles above the subs. The process you're describing here is what I used to use with my old RCF / JBL driven front-loaded mono stuff back in the 80's and 90's with my trusty old RANE 27-band. 8) However this was back when I was doing it every day and I knew my system inside and out.
    Gadget wrote:
    Why would you use the "D" curve? I recommend flat or "C" but flat will be the truest , and then taylor the sound to your liking after that.

    Try that and see what happens
    Gadget
    I tried C and D with the above-mentioned EON system and found D to be pretty pleasing to the ear. I'm not married to it though and will certainly try some other settings as you suggest. Thanks for the help... it's going to be a month or so before I get to tinker with this guy's system again but I'll be sure to post up and let you know what happens.
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Technically speaking the best place for the mic is on the floor, or on the ceiling or in some PZM like fashion even better. This eliminates the floor to mic reflection path, and the ceiling to mic path. There should be no major difference between the JBL and EV speakers other than horn coverage. That in and of itself can cause problems with reflections...

    Reflected cancellations are most likely the reason your system sounds tinny... when a frequency reflects off something and arrives at the mic out of phase the mic doesn't hear that sound even though it is there... the Auto EQ then boosts that frequency trying to \"hear it\" and boosts it dramatically, but it cannot get that frequency back adequately...Now move the mic a few inches and the playing field changes because the reflected paths are different. Averaged multiple location Auto is the only way to see what the room is doing to the sound, so your best to go in with an equal energy system (flat response) that won't excite the room unevenly, and then if you know what you are doing, take some auto EQ measurements in divergent locations and extrapolate the information to get a solution. Unlike the FFT measurement systems that take into consideration time, phase and other factors into consideration, the Auto EQ is simply a LOUDNESS/frequency based system. and it only takes 28 points into consideration and the higher the frequency the farther they are apart.

    Yes I meant do NOT NEED tunings... ONLY bi-amp, tri-amp, and so on that DON\"T use internal speaker crossovers... need tunings...

    Note... if you intend to use the method where you use the floor or ceiling, you need to take into consideration ALL reflective surfaces in between the speakers and the mic, and you need to move the mic out till it is in the direct field of the horn AND the mid, the subs are less important since they are omni in nature...SO if the speakers are 7 feet high to the center of the horn and the pattern is 55 degrees vertical you probably need to be more than 10 feet out... calculate the angles, you'll start to see a pattern.

    I'm and old school guy too but this new DSP technology BLOWS the old crap to the stone age! I recently converted my monitors to the 4800... OMG what a difference... I will NEVER buy another analog GEQ...\"KT\" or otherwise...Make sure you read all the stuff provided as there are pearls of wisdom throughout, even if it's not what you are doing right now...

    Gadget
  • So how do you set up the mic when you are on a stage and the speakers are at the edge, there is a 3-4 foot drop from the stage to the floor. Do you head out about 10 feet and place the mic on a stand about 7 feet high (I am using an EV iforce dual 15\" plus horn speaker.)?
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Other than the fact that the process totally NEGATES the room.. (in other words there is no purpose in doing it that way since the room will NOT BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION! close proximity micing is for setting up a flat system preset, and should be done BEFORE you get to the venue... you have no benefit from not doing it BEFORE you get there...You will subject the people to ear piercing noise for protracted periods and traumatize the staff as well, as you have a few jet planes take off right there in the room...How many venues you play in can you get away with that? You haven't read the \"read me first before posting \" section have you... Do the outdoor method (best) or the new indoor method to set up a flat preset you can store.. please read the FAQ's and READ ME FIRST section as it will help immensely.
    Gadget
  • No Gadget I DID read the read-me's
    I just didn't understand them lol

    OK, isn't the purpose of auto eq'ing using the RTA mic is so that you can set the delays, set the room size, etc...

    In this venue I can do that as I will be alone in the building prior to opening.

    Can you post the FAQ that you want me to re-read again?

    Maybe I should set-up a new thread as I have a 260 and not a PA. Sorry for the hijack.
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    Start a new thread. That is always best.

    DRA
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Ya... start a new thread...read this:
    http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=959
    and this:
    http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=949
    and this:
    http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=953
    and this:
    http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1058

    and you can then start a new thread with a basic knowledge of what Auto EQ is, what works and what doesn't...

    Please note that alarms started going off in my head when you said the stage is 3-4 feet high... you better read this:
    http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes ... lation.cfm
    and find out why...
    G
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