EV SX100+ Speaker Tunings

stringpark

Hi,

New to the forums here, but I was hoping to get some info on how to determine proper speaker tunings for speakers that are not already factory programmed in the Driverack (Electrovoice SX100+ in my case).

Speaker tunings are really what I'm after, but I'm still going to try to go overboard on my setup information here since I'm no pro and I figure that my setup probably contains flaws that are easily recognizable by the real pros (you guys). So critiques are welcomed and if anybody wants to suggest crossover configs that would be great too. (haven't set them up yet).

Fixed Install, Stereo Configuration

Room:
Church Sanctuary
Plaster over brick walls
Carpeted flooring
Padded pews
40'Lx40'Wx18'H Square room

Speaker Mounting:
EV SX100+ Qty: (2). One is mounted sideways on the ceiling approximately 5' out from the side and front walls. The other is mounted identically on the other side of the room. The speakers are angled to point at the center of the back wall and are tilted to point approximately 5' up from the floor on the back wall. (I figure this is not ideal, but I really wanted stereo and couldn't figure how else to do it).

JBL JRX118s Qty: (2). Sitting on the floor at the front of the room 6\" from the side and front walls.

Signal Chain:
Tascam DM-24 board out to Driverack 260. Ports 1 and 2 of the DR260 out to a Crown XS500 and on to (2) EV SX100+ speakers. Ports 3 and 4 of the DR260 out to another Crown XS500 and on to (2) JBL JRX118s Subs (also in stereo).

Gear Links:
Tascam DM-24 http://www.tascam.com/products/dm-24.html
Crown XS500 http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/legacy/135179.pdf
EV SX100+ http://www.electrovoice.com/download_document.php?doc=949
JBL JRX118s http://www.jblpro.com/JRX/pdf/JBL_JRX118S%20final.pdf

Music Style: Rock

I'm really not trying to be lazy. I've actually spend a significant amount of time reading through the forums, and have learned a lot, though I have this remaining question.

Thanks much for your time, Dave

Dra

I think what you need, instead of speaker tunings, is speaker tamings. The EV's are all over the place in their response. Is repositioning the cabs an option? I suggest a couple of things. If possible do a center cluster, array each cab 35 degrees off center, with a 45 degree down tilt. A placement of 10' from rear wall using these angles will greatly improve your sound and cut down on reflections (major cause of feedback). It will also give you head room on the system because the sound will be on the congregation, not the rear wall. If there is a stage, consider putting both subs together in the center in front of the stage. You might build a cabinet to \"hide\" the speakers and put flowers or whatever on the top. Just a thought. Since you will have to drop the speakers to move them, you need to \"tame\" the speakers. Take 1) EV, 1) JBL, 1) amp, and the 260 outside and Auto EQ the setup. Transfer the results on the GEQ to the PEQ's and repeat until the results of the Auto-EQ are essentially flat. (detailed how to's are included in other posts, search them out).

Best guess on the x-over points are....
Subs - HPF 45hz @ BW18
LPF 115hz @ LR24
Tops - HPF 120hz @ LR24 ( the EV's have a huge resonance peak in this area, so maybe a wider gap will be neccessary)

I hope that you found the READ ME FIRST section. If not, read it.

DRA

stringpark

Dra,

Thanks so much for the reply. I kind of figured someone may suggest a different mounting for the speakers. After researching lately, I've begun to feel rather uneasy about my choice of mounting location. I actually had some friends give me the good advice to do a center cluster when I mounted them originally, but I was so bent on a stereo config that I chose to go to the sides. Fortunately, feedback doesn't actually seem to be much of a problem, however, using the full range freq sweep audio track I can detect a whole lot of cancelation going on, especially from around 700Hz on down. I would probably consider moving them, but it is such a major pain to get them up there and wired(no access above mounting location) that I will probably try to make do with the current location. Anyway, they actually don't sound all that bad.

Funny that you should mention the 45deg downtilt. That is actually exactly how I originally set them. However, we found that it seemed to be too hot for the pews in the center beamwidth, so just the other week we directed them as mentioned previously and found that the air attenuation to the back of the room came close to equaling the off-axis attenuation as you move toward the speaker. It actually made for a relatively distributed SPL. Anyway, just thought I'd throw that in, in case someone else out there has a similar room and SX100's.

As far as the JBL's go, I would really really love to get them in the center, but we have a semi-circle altar in the middle of the room and long-story short, there just isn't any place to put them (or even hide them), so I'm kind of stuck on that one as well.

I went down to the church and played with it a little bit on the night that I originally posted. I think I will go back and play some more with your crossover suggestions. I actually ended up with something very similar that night, all the slopes were the same, but I set the subs low pass at 125hz and the tops came down to match. I guess I should try separating them a little so the slopes intersect at a lower level huh?

I don't know if it is the best sound achievable or not, but the best sound that I got that night was by running pink noise through the system and then manually flattening the GEQ based on the RTA input (moved the mic around to different locations during the process and adjusted based on what seemed to be an average). The PEQ for the subs are on (set by the wizard), but no PEQ for the tops. In my case (only two wideband tops) I don't guess it matters whether I EQ with the PEQ or GEQ does it?

sorry for the novel.

Thanks again, Dave

Dra

The hotness that you had in the direct line of fire was probably a combination of the response on the cab and the resonance of the room making it harsh. It doesn't take much volume to \"seem\" loud if there is harshness. If what you have works, and changing is a pain, leave it alone. The problem with hitting the back wall is reflections causing inteligability loss.

DRA

Gadget

Actually the PEQ is much better for that purpose, you can use far less filters to accomplish the same thing, and the amount of phase and frequency anomalies induced by GEQ use helps intelligibility and clarity, and decreases feedback potential and other problems associated with GEQ use. One of the things that come to mind when you started talking about the auto EQ process with your setup is that the way your set up you have so many reflected multiple arrival times that cancellations are bound to cause boosted frequencies in the higher frequencies where Fletcher-Munson indicates we hear the best. 3.5 k being the center of this hearing anomaly...Thusly, if the speakers response was flattened properly (done away from all reflective surfaces, or with nearfield techniques like the new indoor method described in the \"read me first\" section , those hotspots will diminish and reflected energy is minimized.

Gadget