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OT: Basic questions on DBX 224

SoundchasmSoundchasm Posts: 6
edited June 2008 in dbx Archive General Discussion
Hello,
First-post-newbie with a question some might be able to comment on.

I've ordered the DBX 224 feedback suppressor and expect to receive it shortly. I intend to use it only on a simple monitoring system.
3 vocal mics. One monitor mix.
One monitor send split to two channels of a DBX 1215 graphic EQ, to a Yamaha P7000S, 4ohm, 1100Wx2. One side goes out to two EAW VRM12, and the other goes to two Carvin monitor speakers. Both sides are 4 ohm.

So, one monitor mix split to two EQs, power amps and like speaker pairs. I can EQ the Carvins and control their volume, and EQ the VRM12s and control their volume.

I imagine that I'd insert the 224 before the EQ unit, one half for each side.

My goal is to increase monitor volume level 3-6 dB. I assume I'd get them to sound as good as I can, and then start with the 224.
1. Is it possible to get something set up without exciting all bands to feedback, as stated in the manual as C-2, ringing out a system?
2. Can this be done in a short period of time, like 10 minutes?
3. Will this unit be alert to the ever changing second and third set feedback frequencies that come out of nowhere, but intuitively, I blame the drummer? :wink:

Any thoughts or caution you can throw my way will be greatly appreciated. There's not a great deal to read in terms of reviews, so If you can keep me from hooking the red to the black, I'll be in your debt.
Thanks,
Greg Bell

Comments

  • DraDra Posts: 3,777
    1. Is it possible to get something set up without exciting all bands to feedback, as stated in the manual as C-2, ringing out a system?
    2. Can this be done in a short period of time, like 10 minutes?
    3. Will this unit be alert to the ever changing second and third set feedback frequencies that come out of nowhere, but intuitively, I blame the drummer?

    1 - If you don't hear it, then it won't catch it.
    2 - Definately.
    3 - Yes, if you set up Live filters (I recommend the Speech setting for these).

    Tip for your set-up, flatten the DBX EQ and turn back the gains. Get the mics levels and masters all very hot then turn up the gains (slowly) on the EQ. The 224 will find frequencies faster with higher input and lower output (and less pain to you). Then go back to regular gain set-up.

    You can get creative whether you link or not based on set-up, one very hot mic or 2, etc. Lots of variables here, that you will just have to figure out.

    DRA
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Yes this is a Driverack forum... and that is primarily what we deal with... but as Dra said you will need to \"ring\" the system out... the problem is with a 15 band EQ it's like carpet bombing when you really need a sniper rifle...15 bands isn't a lot and they each cover a whole lot of frequency real estate...squashing frequencies that you need along with those that you WANT to affect...
    Gadget
  • SoundchasmSoundchasm Posts: 6
    Thank you DRA and Gadget. I especially appreciate the answers because this is a Driverack forum. I was hoping that the logic was the same and you guys could share techniques and wisdom, which you have! :D

    Some of these concepts might be sinking in. First off, I'd flatten the 1215 EQ, get the mics hot, then slowly turn-up the 1215 gain. The 224 should find the first frequency to feedback and set a filter. Lather, rinse, repeat. That should address the basic acoustic properties of the room.

    Once that is done, can I use the 1215 to adjust the monitors to taste, addressing boominess, etc?

    Second, since everyone plays harder after the first set, I can activate live filters (speech setting), and those might be able to detect and suppress the ringing that (I suspect) the drummer's snare and cymbals excite.

    Would I insert this before or after the 1215?

    Thank you guys so much!
    Greg
  • DraDra Posts: 3,777
    Feedback Killers are typically recommended to go prior to EQ's (or other processors).

    In theory, your speakers are relatively flat (but I doubt they are), so it might be best to tune the monitors as best you can (tone wise) with the EQ using a vocal only CD (acapella) like Take 6, or maybe some Boyz 2 Men, etc. Then let the 224 do it's thing.

    DRA
  • SoundchasmSoundchasm Posts: 6
    Most excellent! I hope I can get my chops up to speed on this piece of gear, because learning is everything. I'm taking a chance already by adding one more variable to setting stuff up, playing and singing, and running the mon/mains from my little corner of Brigadoon. There's not many brain cells left for guitar solos!

    Here's a completely unfair question. If I can suss it all out, will this device add at least 3 dB to my monitor level?

    Thanks,
    Greg
  • DraDra Posts: 3,777
    Got to go. Will try to answer later.

    DRA
  • DraDra Posts: 3,777
    I use one of mine as channel inserts for a pair of condenser podium mics. I get probably +6db at least.
    Good luck.

    DRA
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Thats more than a third louder with 6 db being twice as loud... You'd need a lot of power additionally too..since the rule of thumb is to get twice as loud as 1 jet you would need to get 3 jets...therefore to get twice as loud as a given amp speaker combo you'd need 10 times the power! The biggest difference in monitor volume can be realized through bi-amping the monitors....I would suspect the EAW's may be able to... the carvins...hmmm
    Gadget
  • SoundchasmSoundchasm Posts: 6
    Well, I sure thank you for the help. When it arrives, I'll be able to test in in a few days. I'd be happy to report back. I hope I'll be in the crowd that says \"how did I ever live without one of these?\".

    Thanks,
    Greg
  • SoundchasmSoundchasm Posts: 6
    :D

    I'm impressed. I really like this. So far, in the rehearsal space, I (or it) can set the fixed filters pretty quickly in a few minutes. For some fidelity, I opted for music-medium, but I'm convinced that this thing really makes a significant difference. Setting it up will likely result in less over-all feedback, and since it's so quick, it won't bother me to diddle this machine in a room for set-up.

    It's just peachy that after the fixed filters are used, it can still go into live-mode, and it catches ringing in about a second or so. I've been waiting a long time for a device like this.

    I also just became a believer about 31 band graphics and expertise, too. But it's unlikely that I'll ever have time or opportunity to see that in practice, but at my level, this thing could be ideal. The 12 band EQ is really only good for massaging the general sound of the monitors.

    I'll still try to get my old radio shack dB meter out and measure the gain, but I bet it will be significant. Can't wait to try it live next week. Hooray.
    Thanks,
    Greg
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Congrats... Glad your onboard... If you had gotten the driverack would have challenged you to use the PEQ's instead of the GEQ simply because they are more musical, more precise and one filter can do what any number of GEQ bands can...The less filters you use... the better your overall sound will be. As I said earlier.. I went Bi-amp on the monitors and it was AMAZING what that did...

    Have fun! Thanks for following up...

    G
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