Newbie DRPA owner setup help
dkrauel
Posts: 9
I recently got my DRPA and used it at a show last week. The bar only let us start setting up 1 hour b4 show start time so I really didn't get to do a lot of tweeking which is why I suppose I had some issues. First off our gear. I am set up to run 2 way utilizing the internal crossovers on the uppers. Uppers = 2 Carvin 1588's ( dual15\" dual 8\" + horn) and a pair of Carvin sw1802's (dual 18's). Powered by, you guessed it... 2 Carvin dcm 2000 ran bridged, one for each sub and a dcm 2500 ran stereo linked (mono) for the uppers. all cab loads = 4 ohm so each sub getting 2,000 watts and each upper getting 1,000 watts. I crossed over the subs and uppers at 85hz by running the drpa as mono and setting all crossover points (high and low pass) at 85hz using 24 LR slope and using the low out for lows and the high out for highs. Never had a chance to set unity gain throughout the system as I just learned about this in reading the manual. Yes I am one of those who always said \"you have to run the amps wide open!!!!\" I will do it for this weekends show. Also couldn't run the wizard to auto eq the room as there was no time and wasn't about to subject all those poor people to high spl pink noise. again I hope to this weekend. I tried to get info from Carvin on which slope to use between subs and uppers..... their tech support is horrific. Their techs (I spoke with 2) seemed to have no idea what slope was. I'll never buy from them again. Anyway. Any input on slope or setting this system up would be greatly appreciated. I could also use some good starting points for system compression, like what ratio for a nice soft compression. I know its a great unit and I just need to get it all dialed in!
0
Comments
You didn't say if you set a hi-pass for the subs. If you haven't, you should. Try 40hz BW18 (35hz at the lowest). I'd also raise the x-over point to 90-95hz LR24.
DO NOT attempt to do an Auto-EQ until AFTER you have read the READ ME FIRST section (in particular regarding the Auto-EQ feature). Auto-EQ can make your sound horrible and even do damage.
Avoid whole system compression. Use limiting for speaker protection.
You will be very happy with the DRPA once you learn what it CAN do and what it CAN'T.
DRA
Gadget
I'll give those settings a shot...
Mildly irritating to find out I wasted a hundred bucks an a rta mic if the auto eq sucks monkey balls. That and carvin. I should have known they don't know anything when at first they suggested 1 dcm2000 for both sub cabs. Live and learn. I'm no sound pro but they do actually sound pretty good for the money as long as Ive got enough eq'ing in line to coax out some punch. In good sounding rooms we get many compliments on the sound. That being said, I still wont buy carvin gear anymore.
Any thoughts on the feedback elimination. I haven't tried it yet and well, is it another useless feature like the auto eq? So if I understand correctly... when running the wizard... enable like 6 fixed on music high setting, just bring up the master fader slowly with all the live mics up to level and when the feedback starts, kind of ride the master so it doesnt squeal uncontrollably? Is this a quick process? does it find the feedback nearly instantly? this will help me determine if i need a different setting than music high.
Thanks, Im just nervous about this weekend since last weekend we had way too many issues (many of which had nothing to do with the DRPA. Singers Sure 87a ULX system was only set to 15% output. no wonder it sounded like schizzy and squealed all night... sigh)
Thanks again- You guys are really going a great service to all who fight with pa live sound. Just when I think I know whats going on......Bam.... It doesn't help that I both play and set up the sound. Too much on the brain at 1 time...hahaha....what brain?
Anyway back to making you feel better... where did you get the impression the Auto EQ is useless? I have detailed multiple ways you can make your system sound better .. all based on that mic alone! check out these posts:
http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=953
http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=957
http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=949
and most useless, unfortunately... you could read this IF you have a good room, and IF you place the mic properly and IF your system is properly set up, and IF you have you system properly placed in the room...you get the idea then this post:
http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1058
should have you jumping for joy!
I recently (last week) set up a system, and monitors using a DRPA for the system, and a PX for setting up the monitors, and when I was done they all sounded AWESOME! The monitors could actually be heard over the mains in the early stages of the gig (\"turn it down we can't hear the TV... Oui Vei!) Casino gig... yuk... What I did was set the (tri-amp) system up using the DRPA.. started with the wizard...set up a 2X5... ran the horns off a Crown power base 1... 200 watts RMS @ 8 ohms. The mids were a pair of SP4's run off QSC RMX 2450...in stereo.. the subs, 4 of my proprietary subs I have posted in the FAQ section, run off a Crown CTS 3000 stereo @ 4 ohms per side...
Set the HPF @ bw18@ 45 hz and the LPF @ just below 100 hz...LR24 set the HPF for the SP4's @ just above 100hz... LR 24, and the LPF @ 1800 hz... again LR24. Set the HPF for the horns @ just above 1800 hz again LR 24...
Now here's where the RTA mic will save your ass... Place the mic on a stand about 5-6 feet out aimed between the mids and the horns... Do a gain structure next:
http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=959
Then, play a music CD and using the gain controls on the amps get a basic balance on the system...
Next with the mic where we talked about, do an Auto EQ pass...if you can do one outdoors away from every reflective surface... then back the mic off to 15-18 feet and the process will have to be MUCH louder, but indoor auto eq is problematic at best...Indoors... find a spot thats clear of close proximity reflective surfaces... get close as I said (this is a nearfield measurement system that requires close micing to eliminate reflections by shear preponderance of close sound masking the reflections...
Now, we still can't trust the low end below 170 hz... indoors, no matter WHAT method we use... that still needs to be done by ear...
Once the Auto EQ pass is done switch off the mic, select the preset (press preset) and then EQ... find the GEQ and see what the auto EQ did to the sound... zero any EQ below 170 hz, and if anything boost 80 hz a bit if the kick isn't thumpin...
ANY fully boosted or cut bands over 170 hz are suspect and should be done by ear...If there is a section of frequencies that can be done using a PEQ do that and then re-auto EQ and see what you get, once you have the system as close to FLAT...-0- response as possible.. store the preset as such... FLAT...
I guarantee... if you get this right, if you go into a venue, you will blow them away...Not only will the system kick ass.. you will be able to stand in front of the FOH speakers with a mic @ full tilt boogie and AIM THE MIC RIGHT INTO THE HORN... and it WILL NOT FEED BACK! this is before the AFS PROCESS!
Get the monitors up and smokin the same way, but here, set up a mic about where your head would be... do an auto EQ pass and if you have GEQ's attached to the monitor chain, transfer the GEQ changes the Auto EQ did to the monitors and they will SMOKE!
Now, as for the AFS process... there is NO riding the master gain... get the system up to snuff and running, get the monitors up and running, get all the mics up to performance level (do a couple songs and make sure everything is \"up to snuff\" (just for you Mark8) ) ...Then with everything quiet otherwise, (it would be a good idea to have the people in position they will occupy during the show...(band) start running the MASTER fader up till the first frequency feeds.. it will be snuffed VERY quickly.... keep pushing the gains till the next and next frequencies feed and then snuff...DO NOT exceed the 6 fixed filters...!!! I bet your so far up you would NEVER be able to get to that level on the mains durring the performance... turn the masters back down to performance level and ROCK OUT! I have had a guy HANG OFF THE LIGHT BAR right in front of the speaker with a wireless SCREAMIN at the top of his lungs... and NEVER fed back... not ONE note...THAT is amazing!
I don't care THAT much for Carvin speakers any more.. although they make AMAZING guitars and guitar and bass amps...the Pro audio stuff is only marginal and they WAYYYYYY over rate their stuff... (I started out some DJ-ing with 15 inch 3 way Carvins... a long time ago) I still have those speakers.. and though I have rebuilt the POS crossovers a million times and replaced drivers and diaphragms... they still work!
Where in Wisconsin? I went to college in Eau Claire had a gf in Madison, ran a restaurant in Baraboo...buddies in Bruce and Green Bay...
So... you have pieces that will work, you just need to get the driverack to put it all together...
Gadget
Still here G
Were you using a Rola Reel to Reel???
or
1/4 inch cass tapes???
I will admit to using a AWA BAR-2 Mixer, back in the 70's
http://www.proharmonic.com/repairs.htm
No auto eq on this puppy
Mark
Oh and Shure duotone speaker columns...the first line arrays!
:oops:
G
Thanks G.
every time i come to this forum I learn so much. I'm one of those guys who has been doing sound for a long time (18+ years) and can make anything sound fairly good to the average bar go'er but never had any formal training so everything was/is trial and error. Even in going to see pro bands in arenas it is very easy to tell the expertise of the audio crew. I saw Tool a few years back and the sound was so good, I almost couldn't pay attention to the band as my mind was just racing with thoughts of how they got it to sound so clear and punchy. It was like listening to a good cd through a pair senhiesser 280's. That show made me realize there is so much more that I'm not comprehending and need to get the crap out of my head that says, \"whatever brand will do... it's all pretty much the same\". This drpa is replacing a \"crapload\" of behringer processing and cant wait for this weekends show. The room should be well, not terrible. It is bowling lanes (yes, we've hit it big) and apparently they built a stage over the lanes so it will have a hardwood floor but the trade off is how wide the walls are apart. Side wall reflection shouldn't be a problem up to 30 or 40' in front of stage.
I agree with you too about carvin. I own a guitar and a bass head which are both pretty nice. After we bought our PA, a sales rep from sweetwater cold called me to see if they could help out with anything and he said too that the carvin power sections are way over rated. I thought he was just being a salesman but I guess not. Thats alright though. The gear works well for the small clubs we play and is enough for small outdoor shows. Well, not enough in my opinion but it seems the sound guy (me) is the only person who appreciates a nice loud punchy system. I hate old people (why are you guys so loud, that country band that was here last week wasn't that loud?). Insert thumb into eye! In that spirit, I hope to make it bone crushing this weekend!
I think I have all the info I need to be dangerous. I was confused by the crossover section last week. I'm crystal clear about slopes/low pass/ high pass/ etc. I think it was just the abbreviations that were throwing me a loop. I think I had everything set at 85hz so I am surprised i got any sound out at all. It should have rolled off all highs over 85hz. Who knows what the hell I had going on (my brain requires knobs to turn, but i'm working on that). The sound guy that runs the board while we're playing, who knows a lot less than me, which is scary... thats like saying you're uglier than Neil Young, just looks at me in disbelief when I tell him this is going to make our lives simple.... then I start swearing cuz I can't figure something out. My anxiety gain is set at 147db all the time.
I live about 30 mile north east of green bay in tourist hell....Door County. Hey how about a road trip. You can come up... wait... over and dial in our pa for us. I'll buy you a beer....maybe 2. Hell, I'll even throw in a few shots
Thanks again. I'll post after Saturday night to let you know what kind of issue I may have run into.
The auto feedback worked well and setup was easy thanks to you guys and all your help. I'm going to set the PA up outdoors to get a better pink setting and get the system flat to start. I think its only going to get better form here.
Thanks to all who posted!!!!! you guys put in a lot of effort for no reward but a thank you. You were a real time saver for me. It would have taken me a long time to figure it all out on my own CHEERS!!!!
-Dan
G
I'll do it up
thanks a million again