New user, drum n bass setup

djvast

Hi guys, new to this forum, hope to find a little help. I have searched through many posts and gained a great deal of knowledge, however I have not found many users with a similar setup, so I will post what I've got.

1 dbx driverack pa (duh lol)

1 qsc rmx 5050 5000w amp

1 qsc rmx 4050HD 4000w amp

4 cerwin vega AB36 18\" 750w rmx bassbins

2 crest lh1 1200w 15\" tops


I have the 5050 setup in parallel giving each sub 800w RMS, the 4050HD powering the 2 tops getting ~ 1000w and im picking up my drpa as we speak. This system is for use almost exlusively with drum n bass music. This means I need lots of sub bass, and crisp mid/hi's. My dad has a drpa as well and he managed to blow 2 crossovers using the auto-eq function. I dont like the auto eq and am very comfortable using my ear to manually eq my system. Also this system will be ported to many different venues, so being able to change up on the fly would be better for me anyway.

If I've missed anything here, or there are any questions, please let me know, basically im just looking for a little guidance, I dont need anyone holding my hand lol.

Thanks a bunch!

Gadget

:?
Ok...but I want you to know I'm not picking on you but HUH :?

Your subs are TERRIBLY under powered....
Your Tops are Terribly under powered...
HOW IN THE WORLD do you fry crossovers? With the Auto EQ process?
And you want to run BASS HEAVY music?

Crown states...you should have 2-4 times the rated power of the speakers, that would mean
Cerwin vegas... MINIMUM power 1500 watts Best bang...3000 watts...( do the math thats 12,000 watts...)
Crest LH1's ... MINIMUM power 1200 watts best bang for the buck...2400watts... thats PER SPEAKER...or 4800 watts...

I have NEVER damaged my speakers (any of the hundred or so I own, or anyone else's for that matter) with the Auto EQ process( perhaps the xovers were defective to begin with?)...even when I had a runaway auto EQ process due to a bad mic cable...(a bad mic would elicit the same results)( the Auto EQ process would MASH THE PEDAL TO THE FLOOR ON THE FERRARI!) Granted I caught it right away, but if I hadn't it would have taken at least a minute of FULL THROTTLE VOLUME which would likely have blown any windows in the building and caused major structural damage to the building....and probably caused permanent hearing damage to anyone in the building...including the tenants in the upstairs apartments...

The auto EQ process will do nothing but HELP if you do it right...that brings up another point... you say you read a lot of posts, but obviously you didn't read the \"READ ME FIRST BEFORE POSTING\"... because if you had... you would have provided the information about your system components, or at least links to them...as it states clearly here:
http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=958
in the \"Welcome\" READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST OR YOU WON\"T GET ANSWERS!... section of the FAQ's....

ALL ...of the questions you have are covered here including...which crossover type.. and why...What crossover point should I use....what does the LACK of power I have mean to the crossover point...

Cerwin Vega provides a 3db down point for the sub @ 35hz... that is suspect...I think that is the -10db point...that MAYBE... in groups of 6 or 8 that that kind of response is possible...and the power handling... if the chamber can support only 1500 watts of power then it is NOT properly designed...

You have marginal power for what you want \" This means I need lots of sub bass\"... well good luck...for what you have I would....
set an HPF of 40 hz BW18
Set an LPF of 100 hz LR24

Set an HPF of 100 hz LR24
The LPF is non existent on the HI outs...and is not important for this level of discussion...

AFTER you discover the FAQ section and read up on the \"Auto EQ\" process...you might find that it serves a purpose after all.. and if not, well you might just be the only one...

Gadget
Moderator...

djvast

Thanks for your input. As per underpowering, I got my recommendations from the QSC forum and trust me when I say its not underpowered. Everything on my closet shelves is on the floor, the dishes on the kitchen counter are shattered on the tiles, and every drawer in my room is wide open . I spent 20 mins with the drpa and got all the settings perfect. Found the menu system incredibly intuitive, and in no time, had my dnb sounding exactly how I imagined it.

Also realize some people need to make do with what they have. On an unlimited budget perhaps I would go with your recommendations, however working on a realistic budget, I think I did pretty damn good. I realize you weren't picking on me, however you went off pretty intense there

Also, just because Crown recommends it on their products, doesn't mean its suited across the board

Great product dbx! I will highly recommend it to anyone looking for this solution.

Gadget

Thats good... but when you get into a big room... well..

I stand by my recommendations...and I hope you find good STIFF power out there.. I on the other hand I have NOT...

Oh, and if you were so sure of your settings... why did you ask?

Gadget

djvast

\"and im picking up my drpa as we speak\" -- Didn't have it when I created my original post.

Thanks for info though, I will keep it in mind. Cheers

Gadget

Even if you disagree with what I say 100%...look into \"headroom\", and see what happens when you exceed the amps potential. I can offer up a \"plethora\" of information that will tell you that you have... NO reserve...when the amps power supply sags...the speakers WILL start to distort and heat up...the fact that the design eliminates the HF voice coil scratching as it rubs the magnet structure's.. sound..(it masks the sound above about 150 hz because it's buried 10 FEET inside the speaker..and since its high pitched scratching sounds...NADA(read HORN path absorption)

Good luck, and good mixing, if you fail to do a gain structure... you WILL cook those woofers...shortest speaker wire first...when you exceed the systems potential. my final words on the subject.

Dra

I went to the QSC site and checked it out. They are using 2 times as their base.
Crown says 2-4 times rated power (continuous, I assume).
The CV's are 750w program. This make them 375w/750w/1500w.
The CV's are getting 900w each. That's 2.4 times rated power.
While on the conservative side, isn't that OK?

DRA

Gadget

The key words here are BASS HEAVY MUSIC...that tells me that the average power consumption will be high and the amps will be running in the power supply exhaustion state most of the time...

Lets take my LABsubs for instance...They are voiced by a 400 watt driver, the LAB 12... so 400 -800-16-- right ? well after much experimentation and testing 2000 watts is what seems to be the universal agreement on what is the best power for the sub...

The really good manufacturers give you detailed specks and measurements. the behavior of the woofer in a closed chamber... such as the AB36 changes the power handling characteristics of the driver as it loads the rear chamber... A properly designed chamber can damp the cone movement and in doing so can handle more power.. and improperly designed speaker can allow over excrusion of the driver and damage can occur...

No, LACK of power is going to kill a driver way quicker then too much power, That and a LACK of a brick wall limiter are a recipe for disaster if a proper gain structure isn't maintained and implemented..

Further...those analog boat anchors...oh my aching back... are some REALLY power Hungry mothers! at full power they draw an eye popping 68.6 amps of current with a peak consumption of a whopping 65.7 amps for the 4050, and 84.7 amps for the 5050.... :shock: :shock: :shock:

My 4050 is plugged directly into a 240 volt 50 amp main that runs a total of 6 feet using an -0- gage cable...( I run 2 ohm stereo.. and believe me ... it can nearly dim the lights even in that short run! so can't you just see the system in your normal venue where they provide 4 duplex outlets with 15 amp $.79 Home depot wall plugs...and then the 25-50 ft 14 gage cables running to the amps... :idea:

Oui vei...