Settings for SRM450 highs with Dynacord sub800A subs
ChrisLeo
Posts: 18
Hi guys,
Could some one please help with the way I should set this up.
2 x SRM450's as highs
2 x Dynacord Sub800A's as Lows
I'm not sure how you set the low pass etc
Use for Live sound through a Soundcraft mixer L&R outputs into the DBX DRPA
Thanks, Chris
Could some one please help with the way I should set this up.
2 x SRM450's as highs
2 x Dynacord Sub800A's as Lows
I'm not sure how you set the low pass etc
Use for Live sound through a Soundcraft mixer L&R outputs into the DBX DRPA
Thanks, Chris
0
Comments
So I guess ...
BW18@ 45 hz (10 db down there...)
LR24@ around 100 ha lopass
same for the tops
LR24 @ around 100 hz
That's 100-120 hz
Go to the READ ME FIRST BEFORE POSTING section.. read...
G
He answered your question AND gave links to good info to help you out. Don't be affended by his request to provide component specs. He simply stated fact. \"Please provide specs so I don't have to look it up.\" Then he DID look them up and gave you his recommendation. Pretty nice fellow, don't you think?
So, welcome to the forum. Stay a while. Share your knowledge.
DRA
Sorry I took so long in replying, firstly, I think I jumped the gun in replying the way I did. I owe you an appology. I think the capitals in your text put me off. Sorry about that :oops:
Secondly, thanks for taking the time to look up the info needed & posting all those settings. I as everone else here, do appreciate your time & dedication in helping out.
I'm finding it very hard to fine tune this system though & never get that perfect sound as opposed to using the system without the DRPA. ie: crossovers built into the Dynacord subs.
Can you get down here & adjust it for me
I dont know what other information I can provide you. Please let me know what other info you need.
Thanks, Chris
unfortunately they don't provide a frequency plot but I assume the subs have a big peak @ about 80-90 hz, and fall off quickly above and below that... So set up a bell PEQ with a center freq about 90 hz and a Q of 1.5,then slowly decrease the gain... this will require you to turn the sub up as you turn the PEQ gain down to get the same level overall.. You may find that you need to play with this a little.. to get it right... more gain, less gain, lower freq center...etc..I forget .. do you have the reference mic?
G
Yes, I do have a ref mic. What I find mainly is that, the Lows dont come out punchy enough & mids/highs are too high. I have auto eq'd and all that, nothing has really helped.
I was reading all your notes on auto eq, now, that has lost me even further
The only way I make it sound half decent is turning the volumes up & down manually on the speakers individually, or when I bypass the DRPA and plug the Mackies into the Dyna crossover. Do you think this would be a better way & then use the DRPA in full frequency mode, ie without the crossover?
Thanks heaps
4 years on with my DRPA and I'm almost done with it. I have tried every single setting to & fro, manuals..etc..etc..etc.. I then decided my Mackies were not good enough and moved to a pair of SRX715's with a Crown XTi4000, using the same Dyna sub800's. I was still not convinced these were sounding the way they should. FINALLY....I used the Active crossovers built into the Dynacord's and all of a sudden I have the sound I have been looking for since I started using the DRPA!! the kick drum sounds tight & punchy no more rounded boomy bottom end, High's & mids sound smooth & crisp. Now, my DRPA is bypassed in Full range, and I'm only using the EQ & AFS functions. I might be even better off replacing those with a good EQ. I tried heaps even with the help of a few others to set this thing right, but useless. I wish I could have got this thing to sound the way I wanted it to.
We are completely willing to help and try and find out what your doing wrong, but you have NOT made sufficient effort here to bash the product. Good luck and have fun.
Gadget
Moderator, with the final say what gets posted here...
The reason we ask people to "read me first" is that we want you to understand why we do certain things. We also want you to learn something in the process, something you don't get if we just give you the answers...This is a USER site... dbx offers us USERS so we can pass on tips and tricks which is just what the "read me first" and FAQ sections are all about. I personally set up those in an effort to cut down on the common questions we get asked a thousand times. It's frustrating when someone comes here and wants all the answers and isn't willing to put in any work to try and understand WHY we do things a certain way.
Yes the DRPA and PX platforms are supposed to try and make this easier, and they have (dbx) done a pretty good job of this, but their frustration is it's like pulling teeth to get the various speaker and amp manufacturers to provide the information necessary to set up the crossovers and amp sensitivity settings. Most provide NOTHING, and dbx won't "substitute" specifications the manufacturers won't provide... we will, but all we ask is that you see if the answer to your questions are already there, and see to it that you understand what a crossover is.. what a compressor or gate does, why do you need delay anyway? what is a HPF and LPF, what is a PEQ and what is it used for... what is a crossover type and why do we specify one type and slope over another...
I don't think it's unreasonable..and once you have looked over the material and you can formulate reasonable questions we are glad to help out...but having every poster ask "what do I do now.. my speakers and amps aren't in the preset list"... is a bit taxing on our patience.
From the looks of my original answer to you I gave you reasonable starting points did I not? Did you try those settings? Do you know how to modify the HPF and LPF? have you set the filter type to BW18 for the HPF for the sub? Did you set the LR24 filter type for the HPF and LPF crossover from the subs to the tops? Are the crossover points from the subs to the tops the same, or very close... like to 100 hz as I specified in my first post? Have you used the auto eq, or the Peq's?
The driverack is a set of tools that in the right hands can make a HUGE difference in the way your system runs and sounds. BUT, you need to tell it what you want it to do.. the new DRPA+ gets a lot closer to "goof proof" setup... the older DRPA has been out for nearly 10 years, and was the first of its kind.. at ANY price point...
So please remember this is a USER site... we are VOLUNTEERS here... we don't get paid for what we do here... and dbx does not claim any responsibility or liability for the information provided here. We have made every effort to provide accurate and useful information here, and are open to suggestion and correction where appropriate. The links provided are for the most part done so without any permission from the authors, but credit is given wherever possible.
If you have questions, fire away..
Gadget
XOVER
HP FREQUENCY :31.5 Hz
HP FILTER/SLOPE: BUT18
LEVEL: 0DB
LP FREQUENCY: 80HZ
LP FILTER/SLOPE :LR24
A) The first Q I have is when I go into my Crossover, and the cursor highlights on "H" that means Low Pass frequency right??? I'm a bit confused with the cursor there same with "L".
Frequency Range (-10dB) 45Hz - 150HZ
Crossover, active stereo - Powermax12, 100Hz
What would be the ideal changes that I should make on the template to suit the Dyna's with the SRX715 in Passive mode Stereo with Subs.
Thanks,
In the upper left corner there is an H and and M and an L these are the outputs High, Mid and Low So if the H is displayed you are working on the High out crossover...the display will show both the high and low filter slopes but the high out HPF or LPF will be highlighted, depending on the <prev or next> page you are on.
So, press the [Xover] button and look at the upper left corner and see which is highlighted (H) or (L) then note which part of the crossover is highlighted... use the [<prev] and [Next>] buttons to move to the next part of the crossover slope. If it is on the (H) and the HPF (lowest we want to let the subs go) we can use the rotary encoder (turn it and the slope can be moved higher (right) and lower (left) and pressing the encoder moves you to the features on the bottom of the screen... like gain
The high outs do NOT have an LPF...and one is not displayed, however the mid and low outs have both a HPF and LPF...
I found the through the magic of the internet here:
http://www.dynacord.com/en/products/7/1/3/20/index.html
and through that info it looks like the Dyna's have a frequency response of 45-150 hz...the level control is a 100hz level control .. so look at it like its a bell filter at a00 hz, so, if we crossover @ 80 hz then the Dyna's level control won't have any effect what so ever...
I think 150 hz is a bit high, but raise the HPF on the low outs to at least 120 hz and (if you liked the 150 hz sound set it at that frequency)
Make sure that there are no PEQ's on the low outs active... you can access those by pressing the [EQ] button repeatedly... that works like this...
(note the HML in the upper left corner) whichever is highlighted.. HML the successive presses are
high out filter 1, 2 and 3
med out filter 1 and 2
low out filter 1 and 2
GEQ
then back to the beginning..
you need to turn them on to use them and then use the [<prev ] and [next>] buttons to navigate and the rotory encoder as well...
Now, the 715's will go much lower than that (as the 80 hz crossover frequency would indicate) but then the Dyna would become ineffective as you have discovered... your kinda stuck with what the Dyna can do...this also indicates why when you plugged directly into the Dyna that things sounded more to your liking...Try that now with the driverack and I think you'll see the light.. especially if you have the measurement mic and do the auto eq sequence..
Hopefully you now begin to see why I have said the things I have...as it's all relevant..
Gadget
I have decided to get a PA+ in the near future anyway for FOH as I need something to drive my foldbacks which will be the PA.
Shall comeback to you with the results.
Regards
G
The closest to 120Hz I could dial in was either 118 or 125, I set 125. Is that OK?
So now what I have is;
L: 45.0Hz, BW6, 1.7db
125 Hz, LR12
H: 125 Hz, LR12, 0.0db
Limiter ON, Easy over 4, Threshold 18db
Delay OFF
EQ H: PEQ ON
F1: 67.0 F2: 42.5 F3: 118
G: 2.0 G: 1.5 G: 0.0
Q:4.41 Q:4.41 Q: 0.26
EQ L: PEQ OFF
GEQ - FLAT
Thanks again,
Why did you select those frequencies? and you have them in the "H" or high outputs that are putting out 125hz-20khz.. the frequencies you have selected aren't even in that band of frequencies (well above the LF frequencies you selected)
So, we need to put the low PEQ's in the LOW crossover and High PEQ's in the high frequency crossover region...
Look at it this way...
The "L" or low crossover region goes from 45hz to 125 hz...any PEQ's you want to add MUST be within (or close to or overlapping) this group of frequencies or they will have NO effect on the sound...
It does NO good to put a PEQ of 500hz in the "L" (sub) crossover region.. the subs are NOT reproducing 500 hz...
That PEQ should be in the "H" crossover region...where we have 125hz to 20,000hz...to work with...
That said, lets try this:
PEQ "L" xover:
60hz- Q: 3-4 - gain: cut (depends.. were trying to find the BOOM and remove it.. and leave the THUD so start with 3-6db of cut.. and move the center frequency around a little and see what works.. you might not even need a cut there but try it and see, just steer clear of the 80hz ... we'll get to that next)
PEQ "L"
80 hz - Q: 2-5 depending on what you need.- Gain: again depends... this is the first harmonic of the kick frequency (the thud) try 2-3db of gain here
PEQ "H"
100hz - Q: 1.5 - gain: cut (this might not be needed.. and even though it's technically NOT in the sub region ..it will have an effect on that region in both the lows and highs...due to the fact that even though you have a crossover point set, frequencies above and below that line are still produced... just with decreasing volume with respect to the xover frequency...try slowly decreasing the gain here and see if it takes out some of the low honkiness...
PEQ "H"
300hz - Q: 1.5 - gain again depends this is there to help tame mid honkiness in some rooms.. try it and see if some cut doesn't clear up the muddiness when it appears...
PEQ "H"
5khz - Q: again about 1.5 - gain: again it depends... this is like a "treble" control and can help with harshness in some rooms, or can help with clarity in dead rooms.. so cut or bost ..it depends.
These are starting points and may need to be moved slightly...the gain or cut depends on what is needed.
Have you downloaded the GUI yet? If you do, turn on the PEQ's and put in the filters suggested..the top line (in black and white) will show you the overall combined outputs of the filters.. especially in the "L" region put in the 60, 80, 100 and 300 hz filters and see what the graphic shows. It should give you an idea of what your doing here...
G
To give you an update, That information you gave me was more a learning curb than helping me to set it all up. I had no idea how to use the PEQ properly obviously, and now am really getting the hang of it all.
Last night was a big gig for us in quite a large town hall, and the sound we were able to produce was simply frekin awesome. I had issues though with the auto EQ. It refused to complete on "Med" response no matter what I tried. I then switched it to "Low" response, and had to play around with the EQ settings to get the right sound. I also had to adjust the High Amp settings up & down in order to match the Subs. End of it all, the balance was superb, great low's and comfortable highs.
I still want to perfect the use of the Auto EQ function. Why does it do that, & how can I overcome that?? I moved the mic forwards, backwards etc,but didn't help much. Guess it varies from hall to hall. This was a rather Large hall with very high ceilings.TheI speakers were on either side of the stage (on the dance floor) aprox 25-30 feet, and the RTA mic was around 25 feet in the middle away from the speakers as the manual suggests.
Thanks
Alright..
The problem is you didn't read the FAQ''s especially "Auto Eq':
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=949
where we debunk the whole Auto Eq indoors...
The reason the Auto EQ doesn't finish is that there are more than 4 frequency bands fully cut or fully boosted...there is one other reason that you will get that message and it's because you chose dual mono in the wizard or a preset with dual mono and it wants to Auto Eq the other side of the system.. I'm betting the former...
Here's what you did wrong...placed the mic between the speaker stacks (I don't care WHAT the manual says! that is going to cause problems...) you also (I'll bet) placed the mic on a stand....right?
Here's why that doesn't work...Multiple paths to the mic from 2 stacks, multiple paths to the mic on the stand.. This is a HUGE problem because (as the Auto EQ post states) if a given frequency (from the speakers) from the reflected path arrives 1/4 of a wavelength after direct signal...it will be canceled...add to that 2 speakers 2 paths.. 2 possibilities of reflected energy from the mic on a stand.. and add to that infinite numbers of frequencies and paths and you start to see a pattern...
IF your going to try and auto eq indoors you need to understand this.. it WILL need your ears to fix the problems in the sound, and you had better try it with one stack only with the mic directly out in front of the speaker your tuning.. with the mic on the floor, on a towel or some other soft NON reflective surface.
Your far better off to tune the system as the 'Auto Eq' article say, outdoors, away from ALL reflective surfaces, or using the new indoor method:
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=953
and establish a flat preset that has the system reproducing all frequencies with equal energy...THAT will do more to help your sound in ANY room than all the indoor auto EQ ever will...
One thing you need to do is look at the product of thew Auto Eq passes indoors and note that a LOT of the bass is cut.. that is because super nodes set up indoors (bass that couples together and swells in certain locations...there are also (if you are using one sub stack per side) lobes in the bass... that is like fingers...where there is bass then move laterally a foot or 2 and there will be no bass... move a few more and there will be no bass...where if you put all the subs in one spot, they become omni directional and you'll have even bass throughout the venue ...there are other problems like boundary cancellation to worry about:
http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes ... lation.cfm
but to see what I'm talking about go here:
http://webphysics.davidson.edu/Applets/ ... fault.html
think of this as a typical bar, 40x50 room with a stage at the lower end of the box... now click and drag the red dots to either side of the imaginary stage.. like one about 1/2" up from the line after the Forward @ the bottom, and another equidistant on the other side...Note that the bass waves that emanate from the speakers have finger like black spaces in between them that indicate that there is NO bass in those spots...Now move one red do on top of the other... note that now there is even coverage throughout the room. Play either the dots and see what happens...closer together...farther apart, closer to the walls in the corner...
Now imagine that the mic is in one of those super nodes, or in the black space where there is no bass.. now understand this is just ONE low frequency note that your looking at here.. Imagine an infinite number of frequencies, and a an equally infinite number of reflected paths for those infinite frequencies, and do you start to see why indoor Auto Eq fails?
G