Some Info & Oppinion on Replacing SUB's (maybe useless)

sportfan1969

Well, We/I recently cooked one of our two EV Eliminator-i Sub 's. I decided to replace the basket or possibly recone the speaker; after doing extensive research on-line and over the phone I decided to replace the whole driver. I had to take into account the EV box is tuned at 50Hz (how wierd is tat for a sub), the volume of the box (7.9 cu ft), the excursion of the cone, and a 'pseudo-folded horn\" setup. I realized that I would keep destroying the drivers if I used the stock EV 18\" (they were a bad choice from day one) so I looked at a bunch of manufacturers subs and ordered 2 from Eminence (KiloMax 18) and 2 from Peavey (LowMax 18). After installing 1 KiloMax into one of the boxes and 1 LowMax into the other box, all I have to say is WOW!, I'm returning the other Eminence KiloMax and inatalling Peavey LowMax's into both boxes, I was able to get 108DB +- 3 DB at 1m at 39 Hz with the signal being generated from my Laptop running through the mixer and amp. I bet if i do a bit more research and mod the enclosure with a port or two i'd get even better low end response due to the original tuning of the box.

---A word to anyone looking to swap out drivers on the EV Elimonator-i Sub... Have skinny arms and the back 3 Hex Head screws are easier to remove from the back (remove the input plate/crossover) it'll save at least an hour of cursing and scratched up arms.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!

Gadget

So your telling me that EV built the box wrong? What woofer did they use? I thought it was a 2.5\" voice coil DL18MT model...Wouldn't take much to improve on that driver...but the Killomax? I would steer clear of that driver...So darn power hungry...but the key figure here is the VAS...
*****WARNING******
The DL18MT has a Compliance Equivalent Vol. (Vas) of 20.5 cubic feet!!!...the Killomax is 8.47 cu ft....A terrible choice for the EV box, the Low rider is 14.24 cu ft and a little better match... but FAR from perfect... I like that driver ...it's way superior to the BW series...and not even in the same league with the DL18...BUT you are going to have problems with XMAX (Maximum linear excrusion) the idea in a properly designed box is to have the design limit the XMAX... by damping the cone...with the difference in VAS you will be able to overexcrude the cone and it can then hit the mechanical stops (back magnet plate) which WILL destroy the speaker...

BTW its not unusual to design a sub with a 40-55 hz design.. thst doesn't mean the thing won't have response below that...that is a manifold design... BTW here is the spec sheet for the DL18
http://www.eviaudio.co.jp/download/pdf/ ... mt_eds.pdf
I never liked the Eliminator line...that much...
Gadget

sportfan1969

Gadget,

WOW, I didn't realize I'm going to have to study the physics of sound when I got into the PA end of th band. LOL!
I guess I'll download (it was an alpha release of some sort) the software I had recently seen on the PSW forums and get with my father-in-law (cabinet/furniture maker) and have him help build me a box capable of handling a dual 18" set up... I
n the mean time would adding or reducing the top or bottom ventilation help out my situation? I don't have a clue...

BTW- as far as 18" drivers go, you mentioned the LowRider "isn't event in the same league" as the DL18MT. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
What are you fav's when it comes to Drivers (HF/MF/LF)?

Thanks again!

Gary

Gadget wrote:

So your telling me that EV built the box wrong? What woofer did they use? I thought it was a 2.5" voice coil DL18MT model...Wouldn't take much to improve on that driver...but the Killomax? I would steer clear of that driver...So darn power hungry...but the key figure here is the VAS...
*****WARNING******
The DL18MT has a Compliance Equivalent Vol. (Vas) of 20.5 cubic feet!!!...the Killomax is 8.47 cu ft....A terrible choice for the EV box, the Low rider is 14.24 cu ft and a little better match... but FAR from perfect... I like that driver ...it's way superior to the BW series...and not even in the same league with the DL18...BUT you are going to have problems with XMAX (Maximum linear excrusion) the idea in a properly designed box is to have the design limit the XMAX... by damping the cone...with the difference in VAS you will be able to overexcrude the cone and it can then hit the mechanical stops (back magnet plate) which WILL destroy the speaker...

BTW its not unusual to design a sub with a 40-55 hz design.. thst doesn't mean the thing won't have response below that...that is a manifold design... BTW here is the spec sheet for the DL18
http://www.eviaudio.co.jp/download/pdf/ ... mt_eds.pdf
I never liked the Eliminator line...that much...
Gadget

Gadget

Sorry...ports will only exacerbate the problem... Those are a
manifold technology... I have a design for the older EV S181's with an improved box design and driver...I LOVE the Peavey Lo rider.. they ROCK! no comparison to that low budget piece of crap EV... which brings up another concern...That cabinet might not be able to take the extreme asskicking that the Lo Rider will give it...and that's no kidding

Ok so you want a new subwoofer design.. DIY? you didn't know I'm a speaker builder.. :?: Hmmmm :roll:

Well, the most awesome speaker you'll ever be able to afford (but they are a serious BITCH to build...is the LABsub...MAN do they kick ass!!! But \"BIG\" and 'HEAVY' ...They are a horn loaded design that are 45X45X24 and go nearly 200 lbs...I'll give you a link if you want...REAL response into the 20 hz range with 4-6 of these... and thats CRAZY!!!We did 6 and you could FEEL them hit a half mile away...I mean CHEST THUMP!!!!

But I have a design for a 15\" and 18\" sub... single boxes... that REALLY kick ass...Here is the 18\" design:
http://www.fane-acoustics.com/pdfs/Cabi ... ch200L.pdf
you could easily combine 2 for a 218 design... but singles load and lift WAY easier...
Here is the driver I recommend....
http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/html/c1 ... specs.html
@ loudspeakers Plus they were under $150 last I looked

Here is the 15\" version:
http://www.fane-acoustics.com/pdfs/Cabi ... ch125L.pdf
and the P audio C15 EL driver
http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/html/c1 ... specs.html
these were $120 when I bought them this fall...and will nicely replace the Fane Colossus XB drivers that are no longer available...

For the performance difference...the 15\" ones do exactly the same as far as specs...so for the size and cost difference...I went with the 15's...I have had guys in Sweden, and now Australia build them.. a dnthey were blown away...the guys in Australia said they had to go to the dentist after they auditioned them because they knocked their fillings loose...
try em... you'll love em! 2 is good.. 4 is great... 6 is insane.. and 8 is DEVASTATING....

Gadget

fouronthefloor

We built two of the 15inch versions of these and will probably build another two. They are seriously good subs. They may be 15inch subs but they move a lot of air and they give a good, tight bottom end. Here are some photos if you want to take a look, as they look great too.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.c ... mId=993372

Thoroughly recommend them and as I'm no longer 21 and bullet proof, their relative light weight and compact size are a bonus.

Here's the tail end of the thread, just as we got the subs running. Good luck. http://www.dbxpro.com/Forum/viewtopic.p ... c&start=30

sportfan1969

Gadget,

I'd love the plans for the LABsub in the Dual 18\" variety. My father-in-law has accepted the challenge; though he is a expert cabinet maker... The LABsubs I have seen in the past are of the 12\" variety and I loved their sound but I couldn't imagine dual 18\"s in the same type of set-up.

Thanks Again

Gary

BTW- would lengthening the depth of the port at the top of the Eliminator help it out at all... Man, I hate that I even bought two of these 3 months ago without doing the right research.

Gadget

There is no dual 18 version of the LABsub...and even if there were they would SUCK in comparison to the LABsub... the dual 12\" is so much faster and tighter...and the dual 18\" would be about the size of a dump truck...the dual 18\" was just two side by side 18\" Fane singles joined together I sent you the plans for... Make no mistake.. they are no LABsub.. but they do kick some serious ass in the bass dept.. the problem is... there is no real benefit over the 15\" Fane boxes... which are smaller and lighter.. and less expensive. If it were me... and portability and weight were a concern.. the single 15\" Fane boxes ALL THE WAY forget the dual version... just build more boxes...and add them together for the right number for each show, but if UN-compromised low end is the bottom line... NOTHING under $5000 each will TOUCH the LABsubs...they are the equal of the EAW super subs that cost $10,000 EACH... THE BASSMAX B-0... $8000.... 4 will move you.. 6 will make you ill... 8 will cause avalanches... :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
As for the eliminators... the pair with 2 Peavey 18\" Lo Riders is as good as it gets...no modifications of that box will help anything... :shock: sorry...
Gadget

sportfan1969

Gadget,

WOWOWOWOW, over the holiday my Father-In-Law and I built 10 of the 18\" Constructor series. and all I can say is \"WOW!\".

I took my holiday bonus and spent it on 8 more Low Rider Drivers and 3 Crown XTI 4000 power amps and the required plywood & hardware.

Under our KF695's they are insane!

Thanks for the help.

Gadget

Woa... now just a minute laddie...you never said anything about KF695's! Where did they enter in to the equation? Thats a long way from jbl MP215's or Eliminator tops...Further more what are the \"constructor series\" subs?... Hmmm Are you talking the Fane boxes? If so I have a plan for them as well.. it's just a little different dimensions...Ok ...never mind.. I realize now that the \"constructor series\" are the Fane design..ya, I bet they kick ass.. especially 10 of them!... 4 was really good in a casino, I mean I didn't even get a chance to get 1/2 volume...I bet you 2 of those put those eliminators to shame...

Just another Gary

How about some pix? and some more info...

sportfan1969

Gadget wrote:

Woa... now just a minute laddie...you never said anything about KF695's! /quote]

We have 2 sets of gear. One for coffee house/pub gigs and a for real venues (i/e NOLA HOB, Billoxi Casinos, Jackson Convention Center, Fairgrounds Colluseum)... Needless to say I am the not so prowd owner of the smaller venue setup, our bass player owns the EAW Stuff (He is an attorney in his "real" job), which includes 8 KF695's, 6 SB625's, 4 SM15's, 2 SM12s, a dbx 4800, a few DBX 1046's, a few 234xls, as well as a couple 131's, all runing through QSC RMX 5050's and a soundcraft live8.

His setup sounds awesome but it's a bear to setup quickly so I made a decision to get a smaller rig (and didn't research enough) also bought what was available locally (BIG MISTAKE) as far as the Fane home-built 18's, 2 of them on top of eachother sound better than 1 of the sb625's IMHO.

Thanks

Gary

Gadget

Ya I really like those little boxes...so you've heard the LABsubs? you should have plenty of low end now So what does your lawyer partner think of them? Whats the name of the band?
Gary

Gadget

Dude... that post is over a year and a half old...

Gadget

Ah I see ... spammer...
see ya!