Mic Preamps

Dr. J

Gadget -- was just reading the discussion on \" Who is this Gadget guy anyway and what qualifies him\"......etc. You have great credentials and I noticed you have done thousands of sound gigs as well as a accomplished musician yourself. My question is: Do you have any advice on Mic pre's? I have been looking at the Avalon U5 and the Focusrite stuff. I know they are nice in a studio but what about live applications? I have a Mackie VLZ24 / 4 Bus and I was wondering if it is ok or beneficial to have mic pre's on Bass, Acoustic or even electric guitar for that matter in a live sound situation? Are the mic pre's on the VLZ actually good enough the way it is or could they use some help? If anyone would know I think it would be you. Thanks for all of your help.

Gadget

Thank you for the kind words...I only wrote that as a stopgap because I have actually had a couple people come on and get huffy... so I thought lets see if some credentials will avert some of the derision...

The question goes deeper than mixers and Driveracks I'm afraid...I have long been an audiophile, and a music lover before that. I have an incredible library of music, and a wealth of live recordings.. I have several critical listening systems that stem the gap between boom box, studio, and live rig...the point I'm trying to make is, if your system cannot reproduce a level of sound that is on par with a studio system, or a VERY high end live rig that is tuned to the nuts and capable of pretty flat response from 50-20K ...and just because some people list JBL SRX722...or SRX725... doesn't mean they can do it.. hell, even some folks with L Acoustic rigs, or Nexo rigs don't have a clue how to tune them and set them up...

The Mackie mixer may not be the weak link in your system...you didn't even say if you were using the Driverack platform with your system...

Ok... hmmm I have to stop right here.. Dude I went back and tried to find out what your equipment was because I didn't remember.. I have to tell you.. if your still running those TR125 tops...there is no way the mic preamps will offer any tangible returns...IF you want to make a BIG difference in your sound start with your speakers... the amps and the DR260 ...
So correct me if I'm wrong...Oh wait you did say at one point your\"cheap\" rig.. or something to that effect so I'll shut up and let you tell me just what system you have to justify wanting such an esoteric preamp..(the mic used here is going to be a factor so include that in the mix as well)

Sorry to be evasive, but to recommend something without evaluating the system is... well...NOT accurate...

Gadget :roll:

Dr. J

Hey Gadget -- to recap I have the Mackie VLZ 24 going into the Driverack PA into three poweramps in stereo. Two behringer 2400's for subs and mids and a Carver for the highs. The tops are the JBL TR126's that have had been biamped and we put 15\" JBL speakers in there that have 2032H stamped on them. The horns are Eminence PSD 2002. Yes, like I said before this \"mutt\" of a system isn't bad. Do you know in this area -- not one single sound guy I have talked to even knows what the hell I am talking about when I ask them if the have tried to \"Flatten\" out their system. They look at me like I am nuts. They think because they have an EAW system or and Allen & Heath desk with a Driverack 260 and their laptop then it will miraculously sound better than anyone else's. I have flattened my system (one stack outside) to the best of my ability. It isn't completely dead flat but pretty close. Is it possible to get it completely flat? Working the parametric was kind of tricky but then again I have never done that before. Anyway Gadget, I was just wondering if you ever used any or have any decent Mic pre's you use \"in a live\" situation. I don't know - maybe its not needed. I have a protools set up here at the house so I always try see if what I buy for the studio can help out with my live sound or vice versa. It is tough to get anything to sound good without decent mic preamps in the studio -- so I thought I would ask. It looks like (from what you are saying) that I would be better off in a live situation to start over with my system..... that I may be looking for the wrong thing by focusing on external mic preamps. I can tell you a little about how we run the instruments on our PA. My guitar gets a SM57 on the cab. I also have an Audix D4 I use sometimes. I like both mics and they have different qualities about them that I like. Our bass player uses an Ampeg head and we run him direct straight out of his head. Vocals get whatever mic pre's are on the Mackie and there isn't anything on the drums except compression and gates. Oh, the drums are miked up. We use all internal Shure mics on every drum with a Beta 52A in the kick drum. Really I was just seeing if I can pick up some more pointers from a pro. Thanks for all of your help Gadget.

Dr. J

Sorry Gadget -- for vocal mics we use Shure beta 58's

Gadget

Still need more info.. what is the system your using...Again, if it's those TR125's your not really going to hear the difference in the sound of the Mackie preamps and the Avalon, or presonus...They each have their own characteristics... BUT most that consider themselves \"different\" usually aren't striving to attain flatness, or linearity... they usually \"color\" the sound somewhat. That said, some introduce a certain 'warm' distortion usually through some tube circuit. Others use less than nominal (2kohm) mic termination. But the overlying fact is that there is so little actual measurable difference that doing ANY kind of comparison, or even quantifiable measurement is difficult if not impossible...

That said, again the system would have to be pretty extraordinary in order to tell actual differences...

Now with mics.. that is a totally different story... there we have sonic variations that can REALLY make a difference.. OR speakers.. a quality set of these can REALLY make a huge difference in sound...Amps.. not so much, at least that is again quantifiable...and A/B blind test large cross section listener friendly...\"this sounds better than that\"...

The console is another thing that is difficult to actually say \"Oh ya...that sounds WAYYY better... again, the source material, the speakers.. are critical for a real difference to be realized...

So, the more accurate the reproduction, the better the sound system the more detail and subtleties will be heard... the other intangible here is...individual taste and preference...One mans nirvana is anothers sonic chaos...

Gadget

8)

Dra

Nirvana? :roll: Never really got into them. Too whiney for my taste. \"Boo Hoo, My daddy told me to grow up\"

DRA

Gadget

Oh ya... Curt is my hero :shock: or was that zero :? Seems to me I've smelled that teen spirit too... Oh well.. Dra your a sick sick man

G too funny... :arrow:

Mikey

When you do get around to listening to mic pres, give the Buzz Audio MA2.2 a shot. It's amazing! If you like a little color and some options, try the CraneSong Flamingo. Also amazing, but with a little color if you want it.

Folks down here seem to like the Avalon stuff, but they tend to like anything that someone else tells them they should like.

Mikey