Fane Enclosure

Dr. J

Hey G & Dra -- Getting real close to making a move on the Fane Boxes. It seems that the 18 mm Birch Plywood (3/4\"-13 ply) is a bit hard to find down here in Central Illinois at least locally. The wood expert hear thinks I should just go with MDF (he has no sound experience). But he did say they have lots of \"AC\" grade plywood that has very smooth glued surface on one side and of course the other side most likely has cracks or knots in it. The \"AC\" is half the amount of Birch for a 4' X 8' sheet -- $45 versus $90 plus shipping. Is there a decent alternative to Birch? The way I am looking at this Fane project is -- if these Fanes really are the Bomb for price and portability then it would only make sense to build them right the first time and never look back. Right? Don't want to make anymore foolish mistakes. Any input would be great. Thanks

Gadget

Yes the \"multi-ply\" usually 14-16 ply is best, it's sturdier and actually lighter...Have you got a Home Depot near? I mean they stock the stuff all the time here now.. about $25-50 per sheet.. Actually AC would work, the thing is I like to paint them and it's a bit more difficult to prep them (so they look nice) I.E. sanding and filling...Birch is not absolutely necessary...a cabinet grade plywood would be best, whatever the \"top layer\" (usually only a very thin layer for \"show'.

Those things always impress me, they rock like crazy in groups starting @ 2 and up. I just built a set for a guy and got him the P Audio X-12HP poly carb tops... 2 of the subs and 2 Crown XTI 1000 amps run in bridged...I only had to cut 57 hz 3.5 db with a 1.5 Q, and add a 3.5 db boost @ 2.75Q @ 3.5 khz more for vocal clarity for the karaoke aspect of his shows...

He called and said the night was a HUGE success! He said something like \"Yo rock doctor...the system is insane!\" 8) The bar was ecstatic, He has a very powerful and lightweight solution (he is somewhat handicapt..)...

Ya, the P audio challenger C 15-600 El is a good substitute for the fane colossus, and they are available locally.. at Loudspeakers plus..

G

Dr. J

Thanks Gadget! Do you put the best finished surface on the inside of the cab or outside? Also, the tops you are speaking of with the P-Audio X-12HP -- what type of enclosure are those? Yours or Fanes? I will check to see if we have a Home Depot nearby. We have Menard's & Lowe's here. But, if Birch isn't necessary I am sure I can find a good 14-16 ply plywood, fill all holes and seal it up the best I can. Should be killer!

Dennis

I haven't built anything in years but when I did I always got what was referred to as \"Baltic Birch\" which came in a 5' x5' sheet and was about $35. It wasn't available at Home Depot but I got it at places that sold hardwood.

Dennis

Gadget

Here:
http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/html/x12hp.html
is the P Audio Poly carbonate cab speaker I mentioned.. Light, sounds really good.

Finished side out...for easier finish work.

G

Dr. J

Thanks for the tip Dennis. Gadget -- So the cab you described would be best for my live set-up or was this cab just a good option for your friend who runs a karaoke business? I'm looking for some nice tops to go along with the Fane subs. Just to refreshen your memory -- Im the guy with the JBL TR series tops that have an upgraded speaker in them along with the PSD2002 drivers. I want to switch out my current speakers (actually the whole dang cab) since this seems to be the most critical for my system right now. As for the tops -- I will want to add more of them in the future so I know the angle of the cabs need to be right starting with the first pair so they will be seemless. Thanks.

Dr. J

Gadget

Ok Doc,

No this little dynamo will blow away most of the competition out there...I have a guy in Sweden who had made some DIY subs and they were TERRIBLE... they used very expensive BEYMA drivers and sounded like crap.. he made a pair of the little Fanes and was so blown away he made 4 more. I have a group in Australia that built a bunch and a guy in Texas that built 2, was so impressed (and they have EAW SB625's) he built 10 in all and likes them better than the EAW's! Here is that thread...
http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1570

There is a Fane 12\" top box at the same site, or I have a proprietary design you can peruse here...
http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... +fane+subs

They feature a 2\" exit (actually these sport the 1.4\" exit SD 740N units not available stateside... but the same motor structure and diaphragm) P audio SD 750N. A 60X40 horn for arrayability and the SN12B woofer. (all P Audio) Small, light and capable of brilliant audio... If used in 1 per side configs a 90X40 pattern might be preferd depending on application...Not cheap to build, about $400 for just the speaker, the horn and driver...but will keep up with most anything that sells for a $1000 bucks or even inmost cases way more... a dual 12\" version would be easy to build as well...and even in a couple different versions. Not a long throw cab but still an awesome sounding speaker...


Here is the thread by my Aussie friends.. with pics...
http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... +fane+subs

G

Dr. J

Hey G -- Just got off the phone with Loudspeakersplus about the P-Audio Challenger series speakers for building the FANE subs. They do in fact recommend the P-Audio Challenger over any other speaker because it is the best \"Fit\" for the FANE cab. I asked the guy if going with the P-Audio would change the port length but he didn't really know. On the Fane cab the port length is 108mm for the Colossus 18 & 93mm for the Crescendo 18. Yes I am building the 18's! He actually told me to check with you. They don't have the software program for these to check it with (Only the emminence speakers) so any thoughts on this? I want these to be the best they can be. I could check with P-Audio directly I suppose. Oh one other thing -- I have been corresponding with \"Mark\" @ Fane International and as we were going over the drawings he noticed a couple of mistakes on the drawing. He actually went into the program and made the changes -- then he emailed it too me. The problem is with the braces -- The horizontal brace should be the vertical brace. The vertical brace should be the horizontal brace. The measurements should be switched as well. There should be only one back horizontal brace and 4 vertical braces (2 upper & 2 Lower) that run from front to back. Not sure how to post it here but I could always just email it to whoever would like a copy of it. Take the \"New\" updated drawing along with the other drawings and you can see the differences. It isn't updated on the Fane website as of today. Don't know if he plans on doing that either. Ok any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Gadget

I wish I could o a side by side with the 18's and 15's because they spec out exactly the same... and the darn little 15's are mall and light and kick ass like crazy!

As for the port length.. it doesn't change with the either Colossus, or the stamped basket Crescendo...So the C650 EL is almost dead ringer for the XB Colossus... the C600 EL is a ringer for the 18B, and either should work...as is...

So what the heck is going on with Fane? I thought they were gone.. out of business?... now you tell me your talking with the guy and he modify's the drawing? Ask him for me will you? I'm curious.. I heard someone had purchased the assets...?
Hmmm enquiring minds and all.. 8)
G

Dr. J

G - Come to think of it -- his credentials say:

Mark Oldroyd
Technical / Operations Director
Fane International
Precision Devices International

Tel: +44 (0) 1924 224611 Direct Line
Tel: +44 (0) 1924 224617
Fax: +44 (0) 1924 899166

Here's the website: http://www.precision-devices.com

Maybe they are the ones that bought Fane???????

Thanks for the input G -- I will go ahead and build these bad boys!

Dr. J

More Info just in. Gadget I also emailed P-Audio earlier today asking the same question you answered and here is their response.

Hello,

First of all, C18 650EL is still available, but only if our distributor still carry them, they will be replaced by the new C18LF or ELF.
Regarding to your question below, Mr Dom from our technical dept will help you.
Thanks.
Howard

Hello J,

Please let your port tune at 35Hz. by check at impedance curve.

More informations please let me know.

Thank you for support us,

Dom

Technical Dept / P.audio Thailand.

Well I really don't know how to tune the port at 35Hz. There are four of them on the Fane cab but I will just do exactly as you have said G. I am sure it will be killer. Looks like the C18-650EL may be getting a new upgrade. Might be why Loudspeakersplus has good deals on them now. Especially their 12\" speakers for the tops -- killer prices!

Gadget

Yup that's what the name was...I'm just glad the site is still up.So you've been speaking to him on the tele? Did you ask his opinion on the port length? perhaps if you gave him the Theile parameters he would offer a thought?

Interestingly enough.. I working with a Chiropractor and Musician on a project home here in N. Minn..he is an accomplished guitarist, and a chiro to the stars of golfing, and ...sled dogs...yes it's true, he works on the Iditarod sled dogs! NeuroMuscular, rolfing...etc.. etc Interesting fellow...and his girlfriend has a computer that lists the toxins in your body and provides a detoxification regimen...pretty wild stuff.. I'm next...She claims to be able to help with (not being a doctor she cannot 'claim\" to cure) cancer, arthritis, lymes disease, herpes...you name it...He has also provided me with the Whole Kevin O'Connor library (tube amp guru and audiophile)

I've got over 30 guitars, (I build and repair them) 8 basses and numerous amps..A 67 picture frame Twin Reverb with a 1x15 conversion with a closed back and ported front and JBL speaker.. a 64 black faced Bassman with pre CBS 2x12 cab with Jensen alnico's, and a signature series 60 hand wired Dean Markley class A amp that is number 001...

You'll enjoy those cabs... they rock like crazy...
G

Dr. J

I have only corresponded with him by email. I haven't heard back from him yet -- but sure I will go ahead and send over to him the Theile Parameters to see if he has any thoughts. He is going to send me pictures of the Fanes as they are being assembled. I know they are probably one of the easiest cabs to build but I thought it was pretty nice of him to do that. When I get all of the info I will certainly pass it along here.

Wow -- you have some nice gear! I bet parties at your place aren't boring..... You could have a major jam session break out at any point. Loads of fun!

As far as the Chiro goes and the toxins -- Good Stuff! Detoxing is pretty powerful. I do it several times a year and it really helps to clear the fog you know.... There is so much junk out there but hey I am not one to pass up a good pizza and a few beers! I just try to keep everything in moderation as they say. I have a good time doing what I do. It's not for everyone but the ones who come see me -- swear by it. It's funny because my pastor told me one time -- he said \"You and I are in the same predicament...... People either love us or hates us\". He is right. I just try to help people in a manner that doesn't require gobbing massive amounts of medication. I never make my patients come in anymore than what makes sense to them and they appreciate that. Wow -- we went from DriveRacks to speakers to Chiropractors to detox's. Anyway -- it was great talking to you G. If you have any questions regarding the whole detox thing or anything else just give me a shout -- I may have a few ideas. Take Care.

fouronthefloor

Replied to your pm before I checked the forum. Prob not much help...

Dr. J

Thanks Robbo -- I appreciate your help. I think I have all my questions answered from a guy who works for Fane / Precision Devices International. He sent me an updated drawing of the Fane subs where the original ones didn't show the braces very well.

Dr. J

Thanks G -- got your email. I will keep everyone posted on the FANE project and take lots of pics as well.

Dr. J

Hey Gadget -- sent you a PM the other day. Get back with me on that when you get time. I also want to ask you another question here. Last night we played a venue that is pretty big and to help out in the Sub department I borrowed some Grundorf subs off my buddy. Let me back up here for a second. We use an EP2500 on two single \"Harbinger\" subs (18's @ 8ohm) We then added the Grundorf's in hoping for more low end and thinking that we would be able to utilize more power from the amp. This seemed to help out quite a bit but our sound guy was telling me on break that he couldn't really push the low end because the amp kept getting near the clip point. I looked at the crossover settings and for some reason he \"Lowered\" it down to 30hz. Now help me here: The lower you set your crossover the more power your amp uses. In other words: The crossover is set for the most part on what power you have available -- right? Not just what the manufacturer \"Says\" it will go. We only have an EP 2500 going into one set of Subs that has a 3 inch voice coil (the Harbingers) and the Grundorf's have a four inch voice coil. Anyway -- I am about to start building the Fanes sub boxes so do you think my EP2500 will be sufficient for the P-audio speakers or should I step it up and get a better and bigger amp. I want to add more Fane boxes as time goes on so keep that in mind. Thanks G!

Dr. J

Hey G -- got your PM thanks. Any advice on the post before this one on the right power amp for those butt kickin Fanes?

Gadget

600-1200 watts per speaker...will withstand peaks (ms) of 2400... but NOT often...So if your playing Crap/er I mean rap... where the duty cycle s full of sub harmonic stuff... well settle on the 1200 area.. If your doing HI duty cycle death metal, again no more than the rated power... but for your average run of the mill music, you could easily throw 2000 watts at them...BUT live rock is more dynamic, and should be held to the rated 1200 watts...

The definition of the power rating is...600 watts continuous...24/7 pink noise...1200 watts program...see above, and 2400 watts peak.. again see above...

Got my bio rhythm's read... Tagged me as a wheat problem person (big surprise...) I also flagged as having candida (sp?) but it didn't land on anything specific, so I'm on a no eggs, wheat, barley, potatoes, codfish, grapes, gelatin, sugar, or CHOCOLATE...and that sort of thing... for a month and then we'll retry the candida again...I was depressed that I could not tolerate spelt ... even more than flour...so it looks like corn tortilla's as my only \"sandwich\" wrap...Oh and no BOOZE... sux to be me...but if I can get pain free it will be well worth it...maybe I can drink Sake...(got an anniversary coming up of my trip to japan...)

Overall the reader was VERY surprised and pleased at my overall health...(she asked me to marry them... I think they like my work...said I should just move right in )... long story... :roll:
G

Dr. J

Thanks for the info. Have you ever taken any probiotics before? In the stores they call them \"Lactobacillus Acidophilus\" .... there are numerous strains of them that are good. Yogurt with \"live cultures\" are full of them -- I'm sure you already know that. Anyway, Acidophilus... if taken consistently is really good at knocking down the candida. I have at my office a product called \"Fungal Defense\" made by Garden of Life that targets Candida overgrowth. The problem as I see it -- we gob up antibiotics every chance we get and it takes the good along with the bad and it screws up our digestive system. The \"Good\" bacteria we have in our gut cannot keep the candida in check because now it just got wiped out by the antibiotics. Now the candida can grow without any resistance and of course the foods we eat give them that extra push to flourish. That is why so many people walk around \"Bloated\" all the time. Their gut is full of candida and after you get rid of it -- you will feel amazing. I try not to take antibiotics..... only for the serious stuff. And if I have to -- I immediately make them give me a prescription to take out the candida. You have to wait at least a week after the antibiotics before you can take the candida med. The food allergen tests are great but yeah it really takes some hard work or should I say discipline to hold back on the finer stuff in life like Pizza & Beer! But if you can pin point a couple of major things that your body reacts to and you are ok with ditching those things -- then you are way better off. I sent you an email on another hot topic out there that I have been watching for quite awhile now. It has to do with Cancer not being able to survive in an ALKaline environment. Good stuff. Thanks G -- have a good night.

Dr. J

So G -- will the EP2500 be enough for for 4 - 18 Fanes? How about 6? I'm thinking I may need more power or at least a better amp overall at this level. Hey check out this site on sound batting material for enclosures. I wonder if these would be ok inside the Fanes. http://www.basslinear.com/

Thanks G!

Gadget

4 maybe.. 6 no way...that amp isn't stable that low, and pushed... not dependable...I'd look @ the Crown Xti 4000...the thing is, even if you had 6 on the amp and were getting 2400 watts... thats still only 400 watts per speaker... PLUS your running MASSIVE current through the amps.. you better have MAJOR Edison available.. for instance I recently checked a crown Xti @ 8 ohms drawing 13.1 amps at full power...but drew a WHOPPING 31.5 amps @ 2 ohms @ 50% duty cycle...NOT a good scenario...No haven't seen those I would be interested.. if skeptical if they would help on subs... too low of frequency... to little for the frequencies to work on... now the wall.. ya...
G

Dr. J

Hey G -- Behringer has a new EP4000 that is barely more expensive than the EP2500. They want $349.00 for these things. Would this be worth a shot you think? http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/EP4000.aspx

DR. J

Gadget

Ya,
Most Beh stuff is throw away if you have problems though...
G