New to live sound and have a few questions...

Brandon W.

I have graduated from MTSU with a recording degree but am new to live sound. Right now I use my pa system for 80-200 person DJ events playing mainly electronic dance music in clubs, bars, and outdoors. I own a pair of Mackie 1522z tops and 1801z subs. Most of the time audio is sent directly from a Pioneer DJM600 with Pioneer CDJ1000s. I am running the tops and subs in stereo.

Right now the system sounds great but I think it could sound better and I would like to have more control over the sound between the dj mixer and the speakers. I am thinking about buying an Allen & heath Zed 2bus small format mixer and a Driverack PX.

I think I need an additional mixer after the dj mixer to adjust the varying eq and gain levels sent from diffrent dj's playing on the system throughout the night.

I think I need the driverack PX to set a lower crossover than the built in 120hz crossover. Maybe something closer to 100hz might be better for my system. I think this could help make the tops seem less separated from the subs. Also it would be nice to have eq to adjust for the room and to cut back some of the over-exaggerated high end. I don't think I will need much compression or limiting since most of the source material is over compressed already.

At most venues I don't have much time for a sound check and will have to do most adjustments on the fly. Will this be easy with the driverack PX if I have set a decent preset?

I was reading Gadgets post about power cords...

Should I be running through a power conditioner first? Just the mixers and processing or the powered speakers also?

How do I know if I am supplying enough electrical power to my amps?

Right now I run each stack on a cheap 3 plug 15amp 1500watt rated extension cord and I try to use different electrical outlets but I do not know if they are on different circuit breakers. Each speaker in the stack is rated 13amps and together equal 1300watts (500w tops 800w subs). Will this cord handle the speakers or do I need a cord that handles more amps?

Also I think in the future I want to double the size of the system. I have herd it is best to get the same type/brand subs but i'm not sure why? Is this true with tops also? I try and buy mostly used stuff so it can be hard to find matching speakers at the right time for the right deal.

Gadget

Hello Brandon...

Congrats on your education...here you will actually get something you can use

Ok... enough joking you guys...Sorry I digress...:roll:

Ok...first off the easy stuff...

Also I think in the future I want to double the size of the system. I have herd it is best to get the same type/brand subs but i'm not sure why? Is this true with tops also? I try and buy mostly used stuff so it can be hard to find matching speakers at the right time for the right deal.

Yup, sorry, you really NEED to get the same stuff you already have if you want to do it right the first time...and consider that if you get a pair on each side you really need to splay them FAR since they have a 90X40 pattern on the horn.. that means a 180 degree coverage on each side of the stage with a 2x2... that means all kinds of sound on the walls ... and reflected sound galore.. or overlapping patterns and sonic chaos in those regions...those speakers weren't meant to be used in array systems...pure and simple...

You can do whatever you want... BUT you will not have the optimum sound I think your looking for..is that important?

Where is MTSU anyway?

I think I need an additional mixer after the dj mixer to adjust the varying eq and gain levels sent from diffrent dj's playing on the system throughout the night.

What the heck do you mean by this?

I think I need an additional mixer after the dj mixer to adjust the varying eq and gain levels sent from diffrent dj's playing on the system throughout the night.

Stacking mixers is not a great idea.. Why not get a Driverack 260 and get brick wall limiting and have it all? The 260 is so far superior to the PX and PA that they don't even belong in the same category...With the brick wall limiter you can set an absolute level and forget what anybody else does...they won't get past a set level.. the PX and DRPA do NOT have this...

With the Driverack you get a flat preset and carry that as a GREAT starting point for ANY venue...

You need to go to the READ ME FIRST BEFORE POSTING section and get your LEARN on...

Hmmm I have thousands and thousands of posts out there.. but I cannot ever remember posting on power cords:

I was reading Gadgets post about power cords...

Should I be running through a power conditioner first? Just the mixers and processing or the powered speakers also?

I mean I have posted regarding power draw through different gauges of cable..is that what you mean? Because if you really want to have the power you need you HAVE to have some MAJOR chops if you intend to \"Do it yourself\" (that stuff can, and WILL KILL YOU if you screw up :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: ) so if they don't provide it, you can't use it...too much liability.. to much chance of death or WORSE...
:evil: :evil: :evil:

How do I know if I am supplying enough electrical power to my amps?

Get a system power conditioner with meter...many MFGR's make good units...Furhman makes some good ones...that will tell you the voltage available durrng the show.. otherwise you need amps and speakers that have those capabilities, and Crown and others have those features in their amps...

Right now I run each stack on a cheap 3 plug 15amp 1500watt rated extension cord and I try to use different electrical outlets but I do not know if they are on different circuit breakers.

If you use DIFFERENT circuits... you set yourself up to have ground loops...Cheap cords are a waste of money... get GOOD 12 gauge cables with 20 amp rated plugs and sockets...
You have to get your learn on again... don't you... :shock:
Gadget

Dra

If the extention cords get warm with use, they are not big enough, too long, or both.

If you think that you need more sound, try doubling the subs and give it a whirl. There is a psycho-acoustic phenomenon that if the lows are increased, the human brain compensates and adds highs to the mix.

And what Gadget said. 8)

DRA

Brandon W.

Middle Tennessee State University in Murfreesboro. They have a decent recording school.

I'm not having any issues with hot power cords but should I still upgrade to 20amp cords if running 2 13amp speakers through them? And it was the wire gauge post that brought up this quetion. I have been reading here for about a week.

Ground loops... I haven't had a ground loop problem yet but I thought I read in one of the mackie manuals that it was better to plug the speakers into different wall outlets to provide more current for the amps. I thought this would cause a ground loop but it hasn't happened yet. I know you want to put lights on a different circuit to avoid noise issues.

Also I just recently got the subs so I have mainly just been using the tops fullrange. When the speakers were at a medium volume level the bass seems fuller, deeper, and louder than when the speakers were at max volume. This made me think the 15's in the tops were struggling for power.

Stacking mixers... At most places I use my system several djs will use it over the night most of which have no clue about gain structure and would eventually clip the input of the DR without some sort of line level adjustment or without having to ask them to turn it down. Also most of the time we use JBL eons for monitors and the djs adjust the eq based on what they hear through the eons and not what is playing to the dance floor. It would be nice to have an analog peq to adjust for this through out the night. Audio companies that run sound for the bigger events here seem to do this.

If I go straight into DR260 with brick wall limiting and let the djs do what they want won't the sound will be squashed and begin to be noticeable during break downs when the bass and kick stop the sound will open up and when it comes back it will crunch down agin? This happens if you hit the built in limiters too hard on the speakers.

Gadget

The power issues is best served with one 20 amp cable unless you want problems with ground loops... Besides the 13 amps is a theoretical limit @505 or more duty cycle...in other words the AVERAGE power used by most music falls FAR short of the limit established by the amp draw...

Interestingly enough an amp like the XTi 4000 uses 15.3 amps of current @1/8 music power to drive 4 ohm loads in stereo with pink noise, yet @ 2 ohms stereo can draw a whopping 30+ amps of current...all on a 14 gauge cable...with regular live music it will most likely average 5-10 amps max...

I assume your speakers will average somewhere around or less than that...

As for the limiter...the ones in the speakers are some crappy afterthought.. the ones in the Driverack 260 are full featured...

I have never gone to school for it, but I have a recording studio.. Studio 'G' 16 track analog 1\", and Pro tools computer based...32 channel Soundcraft Delta board...

Gadget

Brandon W.

Thanks for the help.

and I have a small personal home production studio but nothing to brag about. Just got out of school a lil over a year ago and have been working at building up a small pa to use at my shows (tired of renting crap speakers and having to pick them up) and to rent out for similar shows. So far I have made my money back for the tops in less than a year and just bought the subs so I'm happy with the used purchase.

I did an internship at an old analog studio here in nashville and became the head engineer for about three months then lost my gig to the new intern. Oh well, it wasn't paying enough to cover my bills anyways.

I found your link to PSW and have been lost there. Maybe I'll see you there soon.

-Brandon