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Run time error & vocals
bullfrog
Posts: 10
I really like the Driverack 260, however every since i started to use it i have a few problems.
1. For some reason I often get a \"Run time error\" when i am using the GUI interface and when i click OK it closes the whole GUI out of my computer. This sucks in the middle of a show!
2. I can't seem to get the vocals on top of the mix anymore. When the Music stops they are very loud but when the band plays can't hear them anymore unless i max out the faders on the vocal channels.
3. How is it that all my individual channels are at unity gain, and not going anywhere passed the -0- on the solo meter, but the whole mix is about to clip?
I've only had these problems since i have started using the 260. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
1. For some reason I often get a \"Run time error\" when i am using the GUI interface and when i click OK it closes the whole GUI out of my computer. This sucks in the middle of a show!
2. I can't seem to get the vocals on top of the mix anymore. When the Music stops they are very loud but when the band plays can't hear them anymore unless i max out the faders on the vocal channels.
3. How is it that all my individual channels are at unity gain, and not going anywhere passed the -0- on the solo meter, but the whole mix is about to clip?
I've only had these problems since i have started using the 260. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
0
Comments
2. You didn't preface this post with any indication of what system setup you did...for instance,
Did you do a gain structure?
you didn't include any system information... and my ESPN isn't working all the well to be able to divine over the internet what system components you have, and how they are set up :?
Again.. what mixer? gain structure? What is the 260 input gain at? crossover gains? What are the amp attenuators at?
Honestly if you had done a proper gain structure, and system setup I can't see you having these problems... except for perhaps the run time error... go here and see that it's an error with the windows system.. not the program... go here:
for more info and see if you can fix it...
http://pctuneuptips.com/tips/runtime_er ... nAodAznQ2g
The rest is up to you to get us all the pertinent info.. like what did you do when you put the 260 in the system...and what exactly are the components and the configuration...
Gadget
Gain Structure:? Overall? I don't Know what you mean here. My master Fader on the mixer is at -0-. On the individual strips i always unmute the channel, turn on the PFL slowly move my fader to -0-, and then adjust the gain until i am at or around unity on the level indicator. The strip eq's are always at 0 until i begin to mix and i will adjust as needed. (Then Repeat)
The input gain on the 260: Master Fader -0-, Right and left fader -0-.
The crossover Gain: Varies, but i remember last time my subs were at -0-, and the highs were at 3.7db.
Amp Attenuators: I always have them at 56% because that's where the driverack tells me to put them. (Crown Xti 2000's 1 for tops and 2 for subs)
The 260 set up: Input A, 1x2 crossover, output 1 Left High, 2-Mono Sub.
Input B, 1x1 wire, for monitor, output 3.
On section 1 page 6 of the manual it tells me i can choose between mono or stereo. The drive rack itself never gives me this option, i can't find it anywhere. So this is the best setup i can think of for mono use.
Thank You.
http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=959
This post deals with setup, and tuning, and gain structure...
here:
http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=60
We have a more detailed topic by topic group of posts...
As for your setup...
Once you do a gain structure you will see WHY you are having clipping issues... your equipment isn't all \"talking the same language\"...
Hopefully your doing all this tuning via the GUI.. have you discovered what conflict is causing the error message?
Click the \"CONFIG\" button, and you will find all the buried options you have been looking.. like linking and unlinking modules, re-allocating the delay, and setting up moo and stereo setups in 1x1,1x2,1x3,1x4,1x5 and 1x6 as well as the 2x configs. It also lets you change inserts, and the GEQ to PEQ on the front end...
Gadget
The link you gave me for the run time error i think is going to help me out. It seems i have some registry problems, however won't know for sure till my next show.
I do use the GUI to make all my settings and is actually the whole reason i chose yo purchase the 260 instead of the PA. However i like to run mono and when i am using the wizard it never gives me that option for my highs, just my subs. I never use the auto eq it seems to difficult to use and always sound crappy to me. I set up the rta mic and run it flat. I know my speakers pretty well by now and i do cut and boost as needed. This method always works well for me. I did read the link about auto eq quite some time ago, but i didn't understand a lot of the things spoken in it because i am not a sound engineer.
Gain structure: I read the link you provided. It all makes a lot of sense, but a couple of things i didn't understand.
Step 13: During the balancing process, if i turn back down the amps or the input faders of the driverack to balance doesn't this negate the whole gain process we just went through? I'm a little confused. lol
I know the way i put things sometimes really makes me seem like a jerk but I'm really not. Just a frustrated sound guy. I really appreciate all your help.
1. Set the mixer channels so that they DO NOT CLIP, but are @ unity gain... and have a decent signal to noise ratio.
2. Set the mixer to a just barely clipping level and noted the master fader position that elicited that clip level...
3. Set the Driverack up so that there is a good strong input level with NO CLIPPING and a good deal of real headroom...
4. Set the output levels so that there is a good strong signal but NO CLIPPING and lots of headroom... the thing here is the least efficient speakers (usually the subs) (and taking into consideration that the sub amps also need to have the most power since the lower the frequency's require the most power ... that means that here we might want to add a bit of gain to the sub xover point if we don't have corresponding additional power to deal with this) Note: Horn loaded speakers ... ESPECIALLY hf ones... are particularly efficient! To the tune of 100-108 db versus typical subs being 92-98 db ... this is an efficiency measurement that means the a 3db change is a relative doubling of spl...so, a sub @ 92 db is 10 db below a typical horn tweeter... thats a LOT LOUDER, so we have to increase the amp power, and or the LF / sub gain to match
So... when I saw you were running your TOPS... were @ +3.7db and your subs were @-0-... thats the opposite of what it should be... since as we spoke of the subs are WAY LESS efficient...
5. AFTER we have set everything up... we return the master faders on the mixer to OFF so that when we hook the speakers up again the sound WON\"T BLOW YOUR HEAD OFF SINCE WERE AT MAX VOLUME :shock: :shock: :shock:
WHEW
now we know where EVERY PART OF THE SYSTEM CLIPS... and it all happens @ about the same point.. BUT the AMPS have a LITTLE bit more left after the mixer clips...
WHEW!!! VERY COOL!
So there it is...we really need to get you up to speed on the whole speaker flattening deal...it REALLY WORKS... and it's easy...
till then... bring it on...
'G
I'll get back with you on Friday about how it went. Once i get this down I'll sure try to figure out the whole speaker flattening Deal. (with your help of course) LOL.
I can't express enough how much i appreciate all your help.
Thanx.
O.M.G.!! It worked! I am so freakin excited, i finally got the vocals on top of the mix with a lot of headroom. My board wasn't peaking at all, and neither was anything else. Everything was at unity gain. The crazy thing is i have used the AFS every time since i got the 260, and this time I didn't even use it because i was so excited with how good everything sounded that i didn't turn it on, or set the filters or anything. I didn't get feedback one time. Not even close. I did have to raise the Sub gain quite a bit on the cross over to get them balanced, when i did that i went ahead and went through all the steps one more time just to make sure i still had unity Gain on everything. Turns out my amps should be at 75% WRATHER THAN 56%. I prolly won't have to mess with it as much when i get my 4000 watt Xti back for my subs. I am currently using all 2000 watt. If you send me an email address, I'll email you a recording of the show, I'm very impressed with it, and you can hear what your education did for my company. The Band was very impressed and thanked me over and over again.
Thanks again, I really Appreciate it.
Bullfrog.
tzone42@paulbunyan.net
Remember when I said that I figured you needed to add gain @ the xover to get the less efficient subs up to the proper level...NOT cut... like you were.. glad your having success.
G
:? I'm a little confused by this one. Are you saying here that after the the gain structure is complete you would balance the Highs and Subs by adding gain :?: Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but if not, I was under the impression that we should reduce the Highs(at the amp attenuator) not raise the Subs to correct this issue. Would this not mess up the gain structure? Maybe I misunderstand how this gain adjustment affects the output. Please enlighten me.
Thanks
Wally
G
DRA
Another Lesson learned.
Thanks
Wally
I think it may sound like I asked you guys to make sense.
I meant that what you wrote makes sense to me.
Thanks again
Wally
I fixed your post with a near single stroke of my magic fingers....
Of course now your last post makes no sense at all...
Oh welll just throwing my weight around anyway...