OT: JBL SR4733a vs. EAW LA325

John S

First, thanks for all the help on my DR260 issues. Sorry for the OT post, but hopefully you guys can help out. I've been running pairs of SRX728s with SR4733a tops each side. I've recently come into a pair of EAW LA325's and I'm contemplating subbing those in for the 4733a's. I generally run in clubs of capacity up to 1500. I'm concerned as to whether the LA325's are going to have enough power for the room compared to the 4733a's. I contacted EAW today and they said not to put too much more than 600 watts into the LA325's running full range. I've been hitting each 4733a cab with 2400 watts. Does anyone have an opinion on the LA325's as far as spl output compared to the JBLs?

Gadget

Hmmmm... :roll:

Hitting

what does that mean? If your driving the 2400watt amp to clipping you are hitting the speakers harder than you think... IF however you are \"using that 2400 watts properly\" the LA's should do fine in their stead....you may notice a distinctly smoother sound.. and a lessening of the \"ole\" JBL harshness...but I think if you don't \"love\" that JBL ( I can't believe I actually capitalized that... ) sound, you will have fun with the LA's... the conical horn will be different though.. so try and not \"superimpose\" your feelings about the jbl sound on the LA's... of course, if you haven't done a proper gain structure and aligned and tuned the system flat... there will be little to compare ...remember... the system responds differently the louder you run...if your not tuned for EXTREME levels, your NOT set up for them....and the system WILL sound different...and usually NOT better...
G

John S

Thanks, Gadget. \"Hitting\" may have been a poor choice of words. Yes, I did a gain structure and flattened the system. No clipping anywhere in the chain. The jbl's are 1200 continous/2400 program and they do fine when I feed each of them with a monobridged rmx2450. It just seemed odd to me that I may get the same spl out of the la325s by only feeding them 600 watts each. Are they really that much more efficient?

Dra

The EAW is only 1db more efficient.
Using specs:
EAW @ cont rating (600w) = 127db
@ prog rating (1200w) = 130-131db

JBL @ cont rating (1200w) = 129-130db
@ prog rating (2400w) = 133db

IF you limit the EAW's to 600w, but allow the JBL's to get 2400w, the difference is 6db. The EAW's would have to sound noticably better, in my opinion, to justify swapping out.

DRA

Gadget

My reputation precedes me here with cone midranges and a significantly smoother horn section it may not get quite as loud, but I bet it sounds WAAAYYYY better....Remember that JBL speakers are notoriously power hungry as well...especially the older SR 47-- series... I ~kind of liked~ the SR 4732...but even with the 12 \" LF speakers the same harshness exists... no getting around it....those that cotton to it say that jbl has that \"RAWK\" sound.... :roll: won't hurt a thing to try will it? let us know what you think...

I believe that the 600 watts was continuous, that means pink noise... all frequencies 24/7 ...the rock and roll that we typically reinforce has a duty cycle ( meaning that the speakers are \"off\" centered more than they are \"on\" being pushed or pulled by the amps) well below 50%... that means the 600 watt rated speaker actually see's much less than that during normal use (excluding Dragon Force or other death metal that is ON or off...) now, the speakers can handle short burst audio well in excess of the 600 watt \"continuous\" rating... same goes for jbl, they just use notoriously \"suspect\" rating systems to make the \"me too\" bottom line look better... HEY LOOK, MY speakers can handle 4800 watts! Or, we can put out 133 db...Ya, but at what... one frequency... in a burst for a millisecond...specs don't mean SQUAT :twisted: Until they implement a universal standard you can take those specs and use them for ass wipe :shock:

Plug em in... tune em up...and LISTEN! that's the ONLY way to tell.. PERIOD! when the dust clears... YOUR ears have to be the final judge...
G

John S

Gadget, I also ASSumed the 600 watts on the LA325's was continuous and therefore I would be OK approximately doubling that like I do with the JBLs. I called EAW and the tech told me to absolutely not put \"much\" more than 600 watts into it when running full range. He said the internal x-over network is so complex that I could easily fry part of it. Go figure.

Anyway, I've decided to try bi-amping the LA325's this weekend. Looks like I can run 1000w on the lows and 600w into the Mid/Hi. I'm running the DR260 and I think I can get the tunings on the EAW site.

I guess with the \"complex\" internal x-over system already built in, I should probably question the necessity of bi-amping these cabs, but I've been told it makes a noticeable improvement. Any thoughts on this? Good idea or bad idea???

Dennis

On the EAW forum, the tech support guys always suggest overpowering EAW speakers X1.5 to X2....except LA325. They say on that model only that 600W means 600W. I say if you are going to run them over 600W, stock up on cone kits for the dual 8\" mids. The LA325 sound much better than the JBL but definitly do not \"RAWK\". If you are doing a female vocalist who plays an acoustic guitar, go LA325 for sure. If you are doing punk nite at your local rock bar, go JBL (Junk, But Loud). The choice here is quanity vs quality. Fire up the JBLs outdoors and they can be heard all the way down at the local police station.....The EAW LA325s, not so much and I don't care what the specs say.

My $.02

Dennis

Gadget

Ya what he said...

I would suggest that you do Bi-amp, if you have the time and patients to get it right...but as Dennis said, jazz, reggae, good ole fashioned rock LA all the way... outdoors and as I said extreme metal...punk...jbl...the thing is the not the 8\" but the crossover... I believe...but hey 600 watts is a lot for mids/hi's!
G

Dennis

I may stand corrected on the 8\" mids but when the crossover fries, it will be the 8\" that are no longer working. The company I work for has had a pair of LA325s for 15 years and the 8\" mids are the only thing we have had grief with.

Dennis

John S

Gadget, I just sent you an email.

Dra

Junk But Loud :?: :? :P

Gadget

Really.. ok Dennis I believe you.. just seems odd.. must be a failure in the xover that eliminates the LPF for the lo mids huh? I have some three ways with 6\" mids and I have never had a problem with them...

I have returned your .dwp John, with some changes...I forgot to mention in the email I changed the xover gains as well...

Dra... your ... silly
G

Dennis

No, I guess I was unclear. When I stood corrected and admitted maybe I was wrong, I meant the crossover fried and stopped supplying mid information to the 8\" mids so they quit working but possibly didn't blow. Sorry.

Dennis

John S

Ran the system bi-amped in a packed 700 capacity room. After some substantial geq work, it sounded great and had good spl utilizing fewer watts than the jbl's. You were right to set the sub x-over outputs higher than what the sheets said. How did you know to do that? Just experience?

Gadget

When you have a sub, there is a delicate balance that you need to find... With 12 \" speakers it's easier to see a 120hz HPF for the tops because the driver size and 3db down factor usually indicate a lower xover for a larger driver... the problem is, the lower you drive the lo mid, the more it has to work (peak to peak excursion) the worse the low mid will sound...it stands to reason...also, the higher the sub is allowed to go, the more HONKY it becomes...

So, we need to find a balance between the HPF and LPF of the Sub/tops xover, and weigh the factors... some of which are the power available for the subs and the lo mids...

I imagine once you got the EQ done that the vocals were much warmer? more articulate.. that the highs were less stressed, and more natural...?

Gadget

John S

Definitely better and warmer vox. It took me a long time on the geq to get the dual 15s on the la325 lows sounding good. You had the sub xover lpf set at 94 I think. The la boxes' hpf for the lows was at 100. I liked that you boosted the sub xover gains higher than the sheets called for. I tried both and your settings sounded better.