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260 for monitors

RacertrashRacertrash Posts: 59
OK gang, I took Gadget's advice and bought a 260. It will be here tuesday and it is used so I am not sure I am getting the manual.

I want to run a monitor mix from each side of it, They are biamped monitors that have 2 twelves and a 2 inch horn. They will be driven with a qsc 3102. the xover poing will be about 1.32 k if they work the same as they did on the drive rack and if it makes a dif. The horn will work at 8 ohms and the 12 at 4 ohms

I have used the heck out of my drive rack PA so I do know how to navigate them but would like some advice or suggestions.

THIA!!

Comments

  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    MAN... are you in for a treat! I would...
    1. Have an instance of the GUI running...on my computer
    2. Set up a 2X4 dual mono setup...
    3. In the config, put in \"AFS' and \"notch\" or 'Compressor' in the \"inserts\" pre xover...( warning... compression can CAUSE feedback in the wrong hands...)
    4. Set the HPF of the given monitors according to MFG spec...on the outputs... (theDR260 has output 1.2.3.4.5.6....so, hi outs would be 1-2 in my setups, and lo's ...3-4...use a fairly steep filter like BW(more than 10...) we typically use... Ok, find (from the 3db down point) the low limit of top the cabs... the 3 db down point is NOT as low as the speaker should be allowed to go... USUALLY... the smaller the driver ...the HIGHER the xover will be... in a fullrange speaker the published specs are suspect, and generally ... if you want to go below 120hz a \"lo mid\" is necessary... or you risk getting the \"sub\" into the vocal mix...Subs tend to get \"nasally\" above 100hz... so be careful.. your mileage may vary, and there are ways to keep the vocals out of the sub altogether...(see aux fed subs...)
    5. Make sure to use complimentary xover types on adjacent components... I.E. LPF for the sub= 100hz LR 24, LPF for the tops LR24 100hz (only an example)

    Use the Realtime RTA feature/Auto EQ,to see what happens with the monitors...See the FAQ section for a way to get 121db+ monitors...(given the proper equipment and techniques...)

    G
  • RacertrashRacertrash Posts: 59
    Thanks Gadget!!! I cannot wait because they sucked the other way! The horns are speced to 1.2 k and the drivers say the will go to 800 hz.

    When I was playing around with them with the DRPA with one on at a time the best point by ear was about 1.32K with some delay on the horn but I cannot remember how much. When I hooked two together they where WAY more than I ever wanted. I will keep you updated!
  • RacertrashRacertrash Posts: 59
    I cannot find anything for 121 db monitors. I did find some stuff about auto eq and ringing the system. IS that what you wanted me to find?
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Well, here's the thread:
    http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1424
    and it was spawned from this thread:
    http://www.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1430

    For vocal clarity I like to get my xover point lower for the larger diaphragms... Typically a 3-4\" voice coil(VC) on a 1.4-2\" exit waveguide can go as low as 500 hz (which often is the cutoff frequency of the waveguide as well...) typically that would be the 4\" VC... so the larger the VC the lower it can go. That doesn't necessarily mean that you necessarily SHOULD... but I think using a recommended xover frequency is a good start...The lower you go the more power you need.. the lower you go the LESS directional the sound becomes.

    I also have some problems with delaying the Horn? typically we measure from the bottom of the cone on the woofer to the diaphragm of the horn driver.. usually the horn length is deeper than a woofer cone so it is then the HORN that needs aligning with the woofer...so we would make the woofer wait till the horn catches up... there are inherent delays in the xover types as well.. typically we find a 5-7.5 ms delay between lo and hi output which should be added as well, the hi typically is delayed to the lo, in the case of the LR 24 xover we have a measured delay of 7.5ms.

    Some add a small delay to the woofer (less than 1ms typically, which is generally not documented but the users swear by it...

    Use of the techniques in the threads listed above, and this info should help you get these screaming loud...

    G
  • RacertrashRacertrash Posts: 59
    Again, thanks for all this help. The forum here is so much more helpful and not hateful as some of them are!
  • RacertrashRacertrash Posts: 59
    Ok I have most of it done and have tested against the old xover and there is quite a difference.

    Gadget, I managed to seperate all the function except the xover. I am not sure how to get it out of ST. THe GEQ,F C all the other fine,but that one???

    I started with preset 6 that is a 2 x 4
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    On the GUI...
    Click on the CONFIG button...place the cursor over the Xover and select the mono, or stereo crossover you want.. in there you can also change the other modules.. so root around and see what you can do...

    You said a \"quite a difference\" .. not if it's better though.. I assume it is?

    G
  • RacertrashRacertrash Posts: 59
    OH ya much smoother!! much more definition, I do not have a laptop so I am doing it the old fashioned way on the front :cry:

    I am working on that. I am going to try to find a usb to serial adapter tomorrow and a null modem 9 pin and I should be on my way

    I am going to try the delay on the woofer for fun. The EQ is flat and it still sounds better, After that I will do the Pink noise thing that you sent me and they should be able to hurt someone,

    Get in the car and drive out of cold old Minn and come to the warm and muggy KC area. Maybe a tornado or two but nothing to bad :roll:
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    You didn't get a null modem cable? Hmmmm...any tower should still have a serial port... but you really should be able to do a front panel nav... still... hit config.. and toggle to the Xover section and you should be able to change the setup to a dual mono...

    g
  • RacertrashRacertrash Posts: 59
    I must just be missing something. I will get the Xover figured out today.

    I do have an old tower I could reactivate and drag to the garage. Its a thought.
  • DennisDennis Posts: 801
    Reactivating your old computer and using Driveware would be well worth the extra time it takes.

    Dennis
  • RacertrashRacertrash Posts: 59
    I have not reactivated my computer but I did manage to get everything unlinked. I have a problem, DRA, gadget or ????


    No matter what input I use I have signal at all my outputs. IT is like they are linked, I have looked at the screen and everything is unlink. I checked the manual to see if there is some kind of internal jumper that links them. I cant find anything, IS THERE SOMETHING that links the inputs?
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Yes... and once again it's in the config mode... sounds like a 1X6 config...with a+b inputs to the crossover...You'd be able to SEE all this with the GUI... Download it to your laptop and see what I'm seeing...

    G
  • RacertrashRacertrash Posts: 59
    Check your PM please,


    I have been on this all day and the laptop is in the shop :(

    I have checked and I am routed A is 1 x2 and everthing before and after is unlinked

    b is 1 x 2 everthing before and after is unlinked

    Both meters and channels 1, 2 ,3 and 4 show signal no matter what input im in
  • RacertrashRacertrash Posts: 59
    Any thoughts??
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Well the RTE (router will send signals according to what it is assigned to... under the RTE you should see where the inputs are routed...A, B, A+B...
    See PM
  • RacertrashRacertrash Posts: 59
    Gadget, after many attempts I found it, I had found it earlier today without the computer but I didnt get it right or???

    I had it all right until the very end where the output levels are set. There is a choice of

    INF to +17 on A , B and master. I had to turn A down on one and b on the other channel and WALA it work. I did it with the computer.

    I also did a firmware update after I finally go hooked up to the PC. I bought a USB to serial adapter and Nul modem and it worked great after all that.
  • RacertrashRacertrash Posts: 59
    Guys, I am telling you this, Gadget you may be a genius!! I haven't got all the bells and wisitles going yet but I hit 117 db today at about 9 feet. Very impressive. Very clean.

    The software is good but on my computer it has a finger mouse and I find it hard to make small adjustments/ Do you all hook a regular mouse to your portable pc to make it easy. OR ?????
  • DennisDennis Posts: 801
    Left click on the number you are working on. It will turn yellow. Use left arrow/right arrow to increase/decrease the value.

    Dennis
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    Yes, I use a regular mouse. Also, you can left click and type in the number that you want. It will add the nearest valid number for you.

    DRA
  • RacertrashRacertrash Posts: 59
    I did discover that you can copy and paste settings, that is handy!! when you type as bad as I do :roll:

    I think in the future I will use a mouse. It is not bad but when your trying to do fine adjsutments, it can be a trick.

    Thanks for the tip!!
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    Youll find that the numbers move fast, even with the mouse. But moving windows and adjusting the GEQ in a snap with the mouse.

    DRA
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    Dennis, neat trick with the arrow buttons. Did not know that. GEQ works great also. \"Select\" L&R, adjust .5db U&D. COOL 8)

    DRA
  • RacertrashRacertrash Posts: 59
    well guys, a great bunch of thanks for all your help,


    The monitors worked like a champ!! I got so many good comments on them! We ended up using a monitor console and I did not get to deal with them much but they where loud ,clean and great and I think the driveracks where the difference!
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    :wink: Glad we could help..
    G
  • zoeykuzoeyku Posts: 3
    I cannot find anything for 121 db monitors.
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