Sanity check on DRPA setup for EV ZX5 & EAW subs

malong335

Hi everyone, DRPA newbie here. I've been lurking here for about a week reading the FAQs and searching the forum for info on a setup that the band I run sound for just put together. Thanks in advance to Gadget and all the others on all the great info in this forum

Here's the equipment list and my settings so far.

A&H Mixwizard(mono) into DRPA
High out to (1) Crown XS500 into (2) EV ZX5
Low out to (2) Crown XLS602(bridged) into (2) EAW SB150 subs

Currently my settings in the DRPA are as follows
Lows HP @ 35hz BW 18
LP @ 90hz LR 24
Highs HP @ 90 LR 24

Let me know if these settings seem in the ballpark and any suggestions are appreciated. I'm also trying to find info on any PEQ settings recommended for the SB150s and ZX5s.

Thanks,

Dennis

I guess you did your homework because all of your settings are in the ballpark. Of course there is always room for experimentation.

Your ZX5s are quite underpowered...the XS500 does 400W into 8 Ohms and I think you would be better off with 1200W per speaker. You could also use a bit more power on the subs.

Dennis

Gadget

So, to take what Dennis wrote and run with it a bit...perhaps raising the Hipass of both would elicit better results...Perhaps 40 hz and 118 hz... what could it hurt to try...As for PEQ's you would need to find someone with ZX5's and SMAART or perhaps find/get a measurement mic and do some experimenting yourself...Otherwise you might find someone @ the PSW that has those...and some ideas...

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/f/5/3388/

Are you dissatisfied with the sound of the ZX5's? If so? what is troubling you...

Gadget

malong335

Thanks Dennis.

If I have my specs right, the XLS602s put out 1200w bridged into 8ohms. So do you think that we should have about 2kw per sub?

On the tops, they were running the XS500 bridged which puts 1600watts(.5%THD) into both ZX5s(800w each?) which were daisy chained. Right now, the tops seem to be loud enough in the small clubs they play in. I'm not sure I'm wild about running the XS500 bridged, though.

I ran just one side in my garage last night and the gain on the tops needed to be way down compared to the sub amp.

malong335

Hi Gadget,

I'm not really dissatisfied with the ZX5s flat, but to me they sound a little harsh in about the 3.5khz range on vocals & horns. I tried dropping a few db at ~3.5k with a Q of ~1. That seemed better to me. Seemed like it needed a little high roll-off as well. I'm not a fan of piercing highs.

I do have a ECM8000 :oops: and plan on trying the indoor method tonight with the ZX5s.

On the xover, I'm curious about other posts where the LP for the sub and the HP for the tops are not at the same freq. and would like to understand better what the factors are(other than just using my ears) to determine that.

Most of my live sound experience has been at churches with permanent installs that could be tweaked over time, not at different clubs every week! I'm gaining a whole other level of respect for you pro sound guys!

Dennis

So, if you are running your XS500 bridged, you are a lot closer to having adequate power. If I read the specs correctly, you can biamp the ZX5s and that might help out with your 3.5kHz issue...it will offer you more ways to control it.

The sub should see 1500W - 2000W.

When you set a crossover point with your DRPA, it is called the \"electrical crossover point\". So lets say you select 100Hz for a point. If you were to check the frequency response of your system with a program such as SMAART, you might see the crossover point at 126Hz. This is called the \"acoustic crossover point\". So if you really want your actual (acoustic) at 100Hz, you will have to drop the electrical xo point below 100Hz. If the output level of the mid/hi passband is 0dB and the output level of the sub passband is +4dB, then you might have to leave what looks like a gap between the mid/hi's and the subs in order to manipulate the acoustic xo point to 100Hz with the correct phase response at that point. This isn't something you will be doing by ear.

Dennis

malong335

OK, so what are your thoughts on next steps since I don't have SMAART? My only tools are the DRPA, ECM8000 & a borrowed DEQ2496. Should I just leave the xover points the same for both lows and mid/highs?

I'm not sure that you can biamp these ZX5s without mods. I think I read somewhere that earlier models didn't have biamp capability.

Dennis

Yes, select the same point for mid/hi's and subs...whatever that may be.

I just read the ZX5 specs online. I didn't know there were earlier and later versions with different options. If there isn't a passive/biamp switch on the connector plate (or at least printed instructions) then the cabinet is not set up for biamp.

Dennis

Gadget

And to once again jump in here, dissimilar xover types adjacent to each other is a bad idea as well...As for xover types and what benefits/pitfalls they exhibit...if you want to learn more about xovers go here:
http://www.lenardaudio.com/education/06_x-over.html
The different TYPE xovers aren't covered but then that is a very deep subject...it all has to do with what a xover does to the signal to achieve the xover slope selected. There's a lot of information on the subject, but suffice it to say that each exhibits certain characteristics...and trade offs... the more complex the network the more tradeoffs, but usually the less interactions will be exhibited in the xover region...they all have their own sound and in my opinion sound being a subjective thing.. what is my nirvana might not be yours...so, the beauty of the Driverack is it's simple and quick to try different setups and YOU can decide what sound best to YOU!

Now I also noted you said

I'm not really dissatisfied with the ZX5s flat, but to me they sound a little harsh in about the 3.5khz range on vocals & horns.

well what you meant (I assume) was that the UNPROCESSED sound is harsh and dissatisfying...Note that as Dennis said, Bi-amping will give you MANY more options and more acoustical output...

Make sure you use the flat frequency response when setting up tonight and take the low frequency (below 100hz and HF above 3KHZ with a grain of salt... the mic isn't that flat ..or accurate beyond those frequencies...

The higher crossover point I offered for the subs will get you more output, since there is usually little output below the bass's lowest string tuning...41.20 hz low E tuning, and 30.87 for the low B loaded 5, and 6 string basses...unless you have synth's...

Gadget

malong335

Thanks again Dennis and Gadget! You've given me a ton of ammunition, now its time for some target practice! :shock:

I don't think these ZX5s have the biamp capability, but I'll look at them again tonight. I'm not sure that these guys would spring for more equipment(amps) at this point anyway.

I'll reply back with my progress/experience from tonight. They have their next gig tomorrow night at a fairly small club that will be the first time out with the EAW subs & XLS602s. They were using a pair of powered Mackie subs(SWA1501) before. The earlier gig I did with them was with only one, due to the other one being blown.

malong335

I did search PSW & didn't find any dsp settings for the zx5s yet, but I did find this for the SB150 on EAWs site.



Since I'm underpowered, I doubt that I should go as low as the the 30hz HP listed there.

Also, for the amp config. that I listed above, what setup would you suggest? I think I used 2x4 stereo linked last night even though I was just using one side & mono out of the A&H console.

Gadget

That config is fine..and when I suggested the PSW it was to post a topic in the lounge and see if anyone had suggestions for possible PEQ's for the tops, or subs...

G

malong335

Thanks Gadget. I did not post a question on PSW yet, but did find another person that had posted the same thing about a year ago with no answer. I PMed him to see if he ever found an answer. I emailed EV support a few days ago and have not received a reply.

BTW, good link on the xovers. I knew bits and pieces, but that puts it all together well.

Gadget

Good luck with EV... to give you PEQ's for a full range speaker would be like admitting that they are somehow flawed.. and they're perfect... :roll: don't you know... WAYYY better, sounding and louder than any other speaker on the market!!!
Follow the directions on the outdoor method... try a couple different distances .. the DRPA will only let you get so loud during the test make sure the mic is far enough from the speakers that they will be at least as loud as the performance volume is before the DRPA says \"Turn the speakers down\"...
G

malong335

So here's the outcome of my indoor method EQ. The top 2 are without the sub. Just for fun, the 3rd is with the sub and I think the 4th is after adding the sub EQ suggested by EAW and some adjustment of the sub level.



I then flattened everything below 400 & above 4k and then adjusted a little to taste.

I also went with the crossover settings as EAW suggested.

The gig Saturday went very well. I got a few unsolicited comments that the band had never sounded better and the band members got many comments about how great they sounded and how clear and well balanced the sound was.

Thanks a million to Dennis and Gadget!!! Seriously. even with all the cool processors and toys, this wouldn't have been possible without your help and all the countless hours you have spent putting together this information.

Thanks!

Gadget

That's us ...makin a difference one sound system at a time!

Remember, good sound is no accident!
Gadget, Dra, Dennis, and the whole gang here at the DRUG :shock: :shock: :shock: group