DRPA Setup--Yorkville Sub and Spkrs

twinspindj

:? Well, I’m going to give one more attempt at trying to get the DRPA setup so that my Yorkville system will sound awesome. I’m not technically inclined.
Would somebody offer advice on settings for the following speakers and subwoofer? This setup is used primarily at large weddings, but I use it for parties, too.

One (1) only, Yorkville Elite Powered Subwoofer--LS700P (dbl 10�)
700 Watts (2 x 350 watts)
Frequency response: 45-125 Hz
EQ Control: High Freq Cut-off button
Max dB 131

Two (2), Yorkville powered NX-750P Speakers
750 Watts ea
LF 650 watts
HF 100 watts
Frequency response: 50-26K Hz
Crossover at 1400 Hz
EQ Control: 100hz HP Filter (LF Rolloff)
Max db 127

Any help would be appreciated. But remember, I’m not that technically inclined so you’ll have to “spell it out� for me.

Gadget

Jeez this new forum software has me vexed..I see you have posted 10 previous messages and I wanted to see what you have posted previously regarding your system.. I could do that easily with the old software, but not any more...

So, the question becomes, what have you tried to this point?

Looking at your system, you want AWESOME... you have...~

one sub that will fill a SMALL room (50X50 with adequate but not bone crunching bass...

two tops that will most likely smoke the sub level wise, but are meant for (again) smaller rooms...

So you have a smaller room PA and your probably doing mid size rooms... if you had more sub, you could get out there more, but with what you have you are limited... you want AWESOME... get an AWESOME setup... you have small system blues... this is the way I see it... correct me if I'm wrong. I do the same gigs with a pair of LABsubs, and a pair of Yorkville Elite 2204's with 7500 watts...FOH

I have Low end till hell won't have it, and punch that won't quit... but I think you need more low end...

Am I wrong?

Gadget

twinspindj

:oops: Well...in my humble opinion, the word "awesome" has a different meaning for everyone. Obviously, the system I have is "meek" compared to the system you exposed.

This system's Low end does "suck" with what I have, if you consder a much larger room. But then, I'm not playing "hip-Hop" where the lack of Low end would be more noticeable.

Yes, the main speakers can overpower the Sub (1), but that's why the individual Volume control on the mains enables for a matching of the sound..."add volume to taste."

Nevertheless, thank you for your expert opinion which others may take to heart as well. Without an 18" subwoofer most systems will never be "earth shattering" as most everyone may probably agree. I have recently considered "upgrading" to one (1) Yorkville LS 801P (rear horn loaded) subwoofer (18") 1500 watts. Would that make much of a difference in the 50x50 room? I rather doubt the mains will "overpower" the 18" subwoofer?

OK so the tops are overpowering the single sub. If I were to add two (2) more powered subs, each at (400 watt/800 watt music), would that make a noticeable difference in the "50x50" room? Albiet, the two 15" subs are a matched pair but by a different manufacturer...not Yorkville. The sub SPL is 123 dB/126 dB. Freq response: 40-200 Hz; Cut-off frequency 80 Hz, Crossover 24 dB/oct.; Base reflex subwoofer.

Again, my technical skills and understanding are limited...(I'm an "old" guy in age, but "young" at heart)

My intent by posting here is not to demean my character or provide fodder for make fun of my "perceived" lack of technical/electronic know how, but to simply inquire as to how the DRPA can best be utilized in making my system work harmoneously.

I've read and re-read many times the postings of others and of course the Archives on How to do this and How to do that, but I can't seem to follow it all.

I have the DRPA in my roadcase and have used the Wizzard for setup (DJ) and use with Mono sub, and for microphone Feedback. I even use the Synth on occasion. But never used the PEQ/EQ because I don't understand the technical aspects of "cutoffs" and "crossover" points.

Thanks for your help in understanding my shortcomings.

Dra

Scrap the DJ set-up and do a custom with mono sub. The single Yorville sub has a max output of 131db. The 2 no names have 126 each for a total of 129. Then if coupled (side by side) +3db more. That's 132db total (compared to 131db... insignificant). Stick with the Yorkie (less work). The Yorkville sub is a band pass type box and will likely not work well combined with the other subs, so that option is out.
I'd set the freq on the sub to as high as it will go. Set the the freq (if there is one) on the tops as low as it will go. Set up the x-over in the DRPA...
Lows -
HPF at 45hz BW18
LPF at 100hz LR24
Gain = -0-

Highs -
HPF at 100hz LR24
Gain = -3db

Set the volume knobs on all three speakers to 12 o'clock.

See how that balances. Adjust using the volume knobs on the top speakers if less highs are needed (only). Adjust using x-over gain if more highs are needed (only). In other word, you have a max level (balance) with the sub and the tops speakers have to be REDUCED to achieve a good balance of highs and lows.

You could also try changing the 100hz settings to say 70hz to move the available power in the sub and use more of the available power in the tops. This will be at the loss of vocal (mid) clarity, but worth a try to see if it works for you.

If you are Auto-EQing, hopefully you have read the pitfalls and limitations of it.

DRA

twinspindj

Thanks, DRA, for the candid reply.

I will take your advice and "scrap" the extra 15 sub formation.

For setup, you are referring to the "2-way w/mon sub"? I have used it before with my other system, and coupled the two 15" subs. It does make a difference when coupled.

My intentions are to upgrade to the 18" LS800P (LS 801P) newer version, 1500 watts. I've already got a price for the switch.

Again, thanks for your simple and straightforward advice.

By the way, Gadget always tells it like it is...which is a good thing. No nonsense guy. Most "gifted" tech support guys seem to be that way. But, of course, you all seem to get quite a few inquiries with little information on which to base your response...must get frustrating at times. No offense, Gadget.

Dra

twinspindj wrote:

For setup, you are referring to the "2-way w/mon sub"?

I was actually referring to a "custom" "passive" high speaker and a "custom" "mono" low speaker, both with "custom" amps. But, that one should work as well, although you do have to use the preset # slot and I like my used presets to be at the beginning on the list and name them to my liking.

twinspindj wrote:

My intentions are to upgrade to the 18" LS800P (LS 801P) newer version, 1500 watts. I've already got a price for the switch.

Have you considered just adding another LS700P?
131 x 2 = 134db (same as 801P)
2) 700P coupled add 3 db (137db)

Granted, the 801P will "throw" farther, but is much bigger, but has wheels.

DRA

Gadget

Hi again...and none taken... offense that is... I was just frustrated because I couldn't find your old threads to better Assist us in answering your query...

Wasn't trying to disparage you...Dra actually has the Powered Yorkville tops and Yorkville subs, and I concur that adding another LS700 to the system, coupled together you will get much better output, and it is then scalable, you could run with one sub when you are in the smaller venues.

BTW those LABsubs have 12" drivers... not 18's, and sonically, the smaller the driver the less distortion, and the faster the cone can react when changing direction. They can actually go as low in the right enclosure as even a the largest 21" woofers....Audiophile's have known this forever it seems...but the live sound business has always been fixated on bigger is better.It took the likes of Tom Danley (Danley sound labs) a rocket scientist actually, to bring the livesound world up to speed about smaller drivers, and their benefits. I do have some 18" turbo manifolds, and some bass reflex 15" (front loaded) and they are ok, but the darn distortion from them is hard for me to tolerate since I have the Labhorns, and even though they are big and bulky... they never fail to bring that S#*^ eating grin to my face and that proud papa attitude when I see the look on peoples faces as stuff starts raining down off the walls and ceiling when I bring um up :shock:

I'm no spring chicken either... @ 57 I'm the quintessential "Old sound man"...and as you say

(I'm an "old" guy in age, but "young" at heart)

I hope you didn't think in any way I was demeaning your system...I was as you said simply telling like I saw it, and yes I've been doing this a long long time, but I'd like to think I don't look down my nose at anyone regardless of the experience they possess... and simply try my level best to help make better sound available... one system at a time.

G-man

Dra

The powered tops that I have are the NX25P's. I use them for monitors and sometimes for stand alone. I use E12's and the older version for the unpowered LS801P's for FOH and a pair of E12's for delay fills.
Whatever rout you go, there are reputable dealers that smoke any price you find at some of the "big boy" internet sites. If interested...

DRA

twinspindj

Thanks Dra and G-man. Your time and efforts are appreciated. And, G-Man, yep we are getting older. You can add another half-dozen years to your age and I’m still older than thou! � It takes a bit longer for this ole dog to learn new tricks, however. Still lugging and tugging my equipment, too.

Dra, your suggestion to get another Yorkville 700P is probably a good idea. When you spoke of “stacking� the subs if I were to get a 2nd 700P, did you mean one on top of the other, side by side?

The 700P subs have a hole in the center for pole mounting. That would work but I would have to by a pair of telescopic poles…to make sure I get the tops up in the air and over the heads of guest tables that are so often placed directly in front of the DJ setup. I never will understand why venues can’t be considerate of the DJ space.

Gadget

That's because were typically only an after thought... and more of a... Hmm m lets see nobody in here on Thursdays.. better try something...
I usually stack the subs and put one top ot stack for seamless coupling, and the added 3db that that setup affords with the subs, then the other goes on a stick, but side by side and speakers on a stick works too...
G
your welcome... and a few years at this age isn't a big deal right/

twinspindj

Hey, G-Man/Dra. Did a gig this weekend with the Yorkville Mains and Sub. The area was like a big rectangle with one long side and one short side, looks like the letter "L", and a 10-11' ceiling. The opposite end and side were open mother nature. Cement floor. There was a tent (40' x 50') along the "open side.

I used the "2-way w/mono sub" setup. Volume of the York tops (NX 750's) was set at 12:00. The Elite 700 Sub was also set at 12:00 position. The button on the York tops was pushed in because I was using a subwoofer. Didn't change either of the settings during the event, which was a Wedding Reception. The sound was great. I never pushed the volume slider more than 40" the entire time.

My equipment was setup so that I was playing from end to end of the rectangle. Had a 12' front (spkr-rectangle banquet table-Spkr). The sub was centered on the table directly in front. Speakers were on stands.

Just thought you'd like to know what happend.

Unfortunately, I never did set the crossover points. The sub volume control dial was set to taste which ended up being at the 12:00 position. I didn't even bother with the 8 band eq on the mixer either. It all sounded just fine. I couldn't believe how well it sounded when I went to the opposite end from where I was set up to listen. The photographer even commented on how good the system sounded.

If it sounded this good without setting any crossover points in the DR, how much better will it sound when I do get around to setting the points?

I will find out how it sounds indoors in a banquet hall with 9-10ft ceilings and tile floors. I'd guestimate the room size to be 100' x 150' with my setup playing being against the short wall?

I've got to learn how to make better use of the DRPA features.

twinspindj

I never pushed the volume slider more than 40" the entire time.

I meant to say that the Master Gain was not increased more than 40 per cent. :P

Dennis

40" sounded better.

Dennis

Gadget

I never know if Dennis or Dra is going to deliver the punch line...

I think you have only scratched the surface myself...Think how much better it could sound if everything is set up and aligned properly :shock:

So, I take it then that we can assume then that you are happy with at least from your original post?

:? Well, I’m going to give one more attempt at trying to get the DRPA setup so that my Yorkville system will sound awesome. I’m not technically inclined.[/quote

Were here and ready to offer you help and assistance...

G

twinspindj

:P Yep! Forty inches would make a big impact. We can all wish.

I was impressed and satisfied with this past weekend's sound. I'm thinking that because there was less "boundaries" due to "open" air space, the system just did it's own thing, which was kind of impressive.

Of course my next gig will be indoors. So, I'm not sure what to expect. Maybe I will setup in my garage and play with the crossover; start with the 12:00 dial positions. I chose the 12 o'clock position because that's how I tested the system in my garage a day or two before last week's gig. I'll try using the DR crossover features this time.

I'm sure to have questions!

Set up the x-over in the DRPA...
Lows -
HPF at 45hz BW18
LPF at 100hz LR24
Gain = -0-

Highs -
HPF at 100hz LR24
Gain = -3db

Set the volume knobs on all three speakers to 12 o'clock.

I will do a "custom" setup as described by Dra and name it something.

Thanks for having patience...in advance.